I so like yer callin' this a "braid" as decades have passed, info was twisted, there was a HUSH UP an' secrecy, some folks were ASKED ta be silent but even they were kept in the dark--likely not sure WHOM they were defendin' with their silence (could it be they thought the US was defendin' Israel an' not itself?) Like with a braid, parts are "covered" by other twists...and...of course, it's hairy (lol) so....It's like a Russian Doll with nested layers this tale...
I just posted more info... I'm gonna "call it a day" with grattytude fer your indulgence an' that of all yer readers tryin' ta get a handle on this--some curious, some dee-skusted 'bout my line of questionin'--but isn't that often the case in these fraught times?! for now havin' shed light on this whole story muchly--best I can, I'll only add any info from CanaryMission if they offer "sources"
I know MOST will not wanna go beyond the Candy (ha ha) as it's "sweet" music that appeals to existin' "tastes" but I offer a pic'ture more complex an'...savour-y (likely less palatable).
Elsa, I greatly appreciate yer publishin' the added "facts ma'am" that I'm sharin'. I never doubted ANY testimony includin' that of Tourney--only the conclusions drawn.
I'm happy ta be DIS-proven, yet not one testimony so far disproves what I've shared. Is it untrue that Tourney has posted some ugly statements 'bout Israel? Is it untrue that the AA signal was ignored? That LBJ tried ta deny his written promise that the ship would NOT come inta those international warters? NOBUDDY has made any such statement...
They argue "me" with ad-hominem attacks that I'm a crackpot (100% true as I tend NOT ta believe the OFF-FISH-ALL nooze an' I wax/think heterodoxically")-- They say the fella from Canary Mission is lyin' because he's just some "dude influencer." SO what is Candace Owens? An actress! (Mee too!) Her headshot was on the innertubes for years. She is no historian. And again, nothin' I have said contradicts ANY of the testimony of the actual men that served on that ship, not one; it just sez that "stuff was left out. IMPORTANT stuff.
Life Site Nooz hates da joos & Israel an' they offer no new facts--they repeat Candace's "take" 100%--so how is zat better journalism? If someone "known" like Tucker Carlson were to repeat Candace's "take" on the matter would it mean it's true? (not fer me!)
Israel formally cannot admit what I believe IS the real truth that they were "screwed" by the US but had ta hush it up b/c they needed the US. The US/Israeli relationship has always been...thorny.
Anywhoo--most who say what I'm sharin' which to me is just questions.... but ones that make a heck of a lot MORE sense than the official story--come back with just a dose of venom. (btw there are NO Khazarians on the planet--the territory known as Khazaria existed for 300 yrs max and produced no joos b/c most livin' there were converted turks--joos have no ottoman genetics...'nuther story, nuther time)
I'm used ta the "haters" an' they seem to gravitate to any story where Israel EQUALS evil incarnate. So what I say--what yer also seein' with me here (that there is QUITE a different story)--falls on deaf ears. They see only what Tourney sees... an' sadly even Tourney was duped... he'll never know--entire crew kept in the dark. I'm an armchair detective an' clearly that ain't good enuf fer some readers.
But Elsa, I APPRECIATE yer puttin' this out there to your follerin' too... it's gutsy ta do it! Perhaps folks are not ready to hear a story that goes against the narrative and the beautiful truth tellin' talkin' head, Miss Owens. Really, folks SO WANT to believe her an' this is proof of what they wanna believe--it's da joos, always da joos, an' Israel "controlled" the US so it's the fault of the joos that Israel screwed the Americans...killed Americans "b/c of da joos"... So much tidier.
As ye know, I'm not an historian but I'm a curious "student" of hist'ry--an' I read an' research & dig up stuff--IF that is "insultin' " to the "intelligence" of yer readership then so be it... No offence intended--in fact I hope to appeal TO the innate intelligence of those who kin say stop, wait, listen... But fer some I guess only "recognized" pundits (pun-DITZ) are worth lendin' an ear to.
In my wacky world George Carlin'll tell you more 'bout how the world works than near-all of our elected officials. I couldn't fill his big boots but let's say I'm an admirer!
What I write is for the record (not the wreck-herd!)... one day if the truth does come out an' it resembles what I'm sayin'--what brainiac John Loftus is sayin'--what the Canary Mission guy (who is NOT jooish) is sayin' then I'll be glad I got it out there--an' grateful to YOU for also sharin' it.
NOBUDDY is forced ta listen... but keepin' an open mind is not a bad thing no matter WHOM one hates or WHOM they would "like" to blame...
For me the exploration is an ongoing search for what was actually going on.
My current conclusion (more details to be worked in):
No Israel-US collusion before the attack. Instead the US acted against Israeli interests in sending the USS Liberty to where it was.
Afterwards, once Israel started the attack, LBJ colluded in stopping help from going to aid the USS Liberty and in the cover-up story - almost certainly to save his own face, as he had ordered the boat to where it was, probably fantasying this would deter Israel from attacking the Golan Heights, and instead it just led Israel to attack the USS Liberty - yes a war crime as the boat was in international waters, but on the other side was it self-defense if the boat was relaying messages it was intercepting from Israel. Anyway, if LBJ did not collude in helping strengthen Israel's cover-up story (that it mistook the boat for an Egyptian boat), that would have brought to light LBJ’s role in sending the boat to where it was attacked.
For CanaryMission, I have come to believe, based on what he says, that this is not someone to be trusted. One, he claims no US flag was flown on the USS Liberty. This goes against the testimony of 2 crew members, one of whom ordered, shortly before the attack, a bright fresh flag to be hoisted. He also claims 5 messages were sent to the USS Liberty - something I have heard from no other source. There's also something else but I forget it at the moment. Finally, he does not give his source, which discredits him for me.
And then, Daisy Moses, you found Phil Tourney's antisemitic comments and called him something like a rabid antisemite. Phil started very pro-Israel, as he mentions in the interview. Had you been treated as Phil was by Israel - ship attacked, torpedoed, 34 dead, 178 or so wounded, 2 lifeboats sunk and the third taken away - and then deserted by your own country as well which forced you to be silent about what happened - you might also end up against the people who had done this. I'm not saying it's good to generalize, but I consider it very understandable.
ps I wrote to the press contact at Canary Mission--I'll see if they git back ta me with sources, citations. Their Mission is to be "Canaries" callin' out blatant anti-antisemitism (includin'--to their credit!--when joos perpetrate it) so they too have an agenda I should state. They are not the ADL tryin' to ban or silence folks--just sharin' incidents and comments on them. (from all I can gather) My own angle is if they tell the truth an' reveal facts that are hidden, that's helpful. If they are messin' with the truth--then they should be disregarded--I haven't seen that accusation confirmed. However even Candace Owens who imho is anti-semitic (and is free to say whatever she likes) has revealed a testimony and some facts that are truthful and helpful and were unfamiliar to many--I don't fault her for that no matter how she "feels;" it's the wild conclusions she draws so confidently (drawin' in her devoted crowd) creating a scenario that is false (imho) / that I differ with.
I never object ta folks sharin' facts even when they are ugly or conflict with each other (as I wrote--folks even remember the same thing differently--on 911 some heard "explosions" others did not...)
So as ya said, "just the facts ma'am"-- for those of us who wanna see that DRAGNET fit the right perp to the right crime(s)!
ps loved that show in reruns--never thought much 'bout it but Dragnet, Columbo, all those shows primed some of us (this crackpot here!) to look at things like people bein' "framed" or the wrong person bein' "fingered" an' all that jazz... ha ha, mebbe that boob tube watchin' did me a little good ;-)
I'm with ya Elsa--tho' I'm more likely ta side with Canary Mission guy--THIS is the thing--Tourney himself (I think it was Tourney if not the other guy) that there was NO FLAG UP an' he (Tourney or the other guy name starts w/ E.) said "No, you'll put that flag up" to which the crew member said "But it's our last flag" and the person giving testimony said, "Do what I say--use our last flag--we need that flag up."
NOW I recall that flag went up AFTER the reconnaissance planes finished their mission AND after the first shots were fired. Correct me if I'm wrong. That covers Canary Mission--in the actual ship crew testimony. There was a time with no flag.
How long?
RE "This goes against the testimony of 2 crew members, one of whom ordered, shortly before the attack, a bright fresh flag to be hoisted. "
The "bright fresh flag" was to be hoisted b/c there was no flag as I recall hearin'--then we are back to all stories sayin' the same thing...Canary's too...
Second--re the 5 messages sent that you're dismissing because nobody else mentioned them. WHY would nobody else mention them? Their existence makes BOTH the current US story AND the Israel Cover story FALSE (which they both are!). So it would not be common fact... So, better instead of just saying that he must be faker because you haven't read his claims elsewhere, would it not be BETTER to wonder and then ASK: "How did he know? Did he look at documents? There were FOIA documents--it might be right there!" WHY NOT contact him vs just dismissing him? He seems well-informed (imho) and not like a plant. If yer spidey sense is up then of course don't go there -- but imho he might be approachable...
Re your last comment that Tourney is justified sayin' such awful things about Israel/Zionists because he was shot is only "somewhat" understandable as I've heard other testimony-includin' the fella I quoted while mentioning Loftus--who was also on the ship and who did not go joo-hatin'. Elsa, these were young poor Southern boys who had (per the lawyer--that was it--he was a lawyer on the ship) NEVER met a joo an' back in 1967 there was a lotta mistrust (to say the least) for those you don't know and there was a lot of anti-semitism in the South. Believe me (or don't lol ;-) I don't buy the vitriol. I DO buy he wants answers and was "ANGRY" at Israel for "doing him wrong" with the US covering up for Israel. But I don't think Israel or joos wanted him dead. There are all kinds of ways people lash out but his rhetoric is different--imho.
Yer reader who mentioned this Capt. Green who "saved" the ship an' who was actually Jewish (I've yet to hear his testimony myself) -- Green didn't go off on the zionists OR LBJ for that matter (he did suspect a cover up) or turn against Israel but he could have--he could have been killed too! He DID know his ship was a spy ship though...
Hate often drives people to say really ugly things that may not be true. Many think the hate is justified "based on" the understandings the haters have. More importantly, such blind hate can blind these people from seeing other stories, other facts--imho that's the case with Tourney. BUT it's okay that folks may see Tourney as fully justified in hatin' Israel, joos, and turning on them... I feel it comes from a lack of understanding AND from a desire not to understand. I think the truth (what I see as the truth) would hurt more--if it was not "da evil joos" afterall. (Well, it was but it wasn't as again, they would not risk losing a war to save 34 men... EVEN I'll add--if ALL The men on that boat were joos!) Thanks as always...
I want evidence of the existence of those 5 messages. Canary Mission does not do that. I can claim anything. Those claims are fact-claims, not facts.
By the way, I agree that we need to go beyond the blanket hate and anger and what-not. Like the blanket condemnation of Germans throughout the West, including Germany, for the Holocaust.
yup, agreed 100% we need to see the evidence from all these folks on all sides--the issue is that folks have agendas--I generally believe all the crew members just tellin' what happened--the issues comes when they draw crazy conclusions (that Israel wanted to take over 3 countries, really? That this was planned a year in advance...). I'll look at "canary guy" an' see what I can find (I'm not on any social media so no guarantees as sometimes you need to be a member to reach out/contact) thx!
And something you will love hearing: the pilot of the first plane that was supposed to attack the USS Liberty refused to do it, turned around. He was arrested as soon as he returned to base. Someone with strong integrity. The source (and the name of the pilot) are in there somewhere.
thanks! I'll listen again--I could be mis-rememberin' about the timing--but I did recall the flag was actually down for a time--not sure if this was the testimony where one crew member said it... YUP I had heard about the pilot that refused--I think that IS a sign of integrity but I don't judge those that DID follow orders (again, I might be biased even tho' I know there have always been--in most military divisions--some rotten fellas regardless of nation) that in the middle of a war if yer asked to take down a spy ship that might compromise yer ability to win that war--a war that is more precarious IF you are not quite playin' accordin' to Hoyle BECAUSE the deck's stacked against ya! So I could not "cheer on" nor decry what Israel did in takin' out that ship--I can have some "understanding" which is far more generous than most accord Israel now'daze. I'll go an' listen an' will try ta see if I find where I "recall" hearin' there was--for a time--no flag (thx again!)
"On the contrary, it seems that the ship made every effort to conceal her identity, both by flying a small flag which was unidentifiable."
Ironically one of yer posters accused me of usin' WickyPedia for "all my facts" which was mostly not true but I will share this from that same site (it's not all baloney an' there is CERTAINLY a lotta anti-Israeli material on Wikipedia...) -
" In a post-attack statement, the pilots said they saw no distinguishable markings or flag on the ship.
SO there may even be more onnit--I gotta git goin' as I have an early mornin' trip to a notary tomorree--but I'm recallin' more than a few testimonies that at least for a time there was either no flag or only a small flag--Ram Ron's is just one've 'em I think... So to write off the Canary in the Coalmine for sharin' what some others have said under oath is not totally fair to him. For any "real" incident different folks remember differently---Rashomon! or more likely simple line ups where victims are to identify the "perps" and often CANNOT -- even when they were close to their faces! They often mis-remember facts--a scarf a hat the color of clothing... This is with real victims so there are 100% truthful testimonies that may DIFFER. I'm not SURE at all 'bout this flag thing.
I DO believe (an' this is why I don't put much weight into the flag argument ANYWAY) that the IDF did discern it WAS a US ship--AND they shot it up anyway b/c orders AND b/c spy ship--22 CIA (? I think I heard that it was CIA members) spyin' on 'em! At that point savin' face for LBJ was less important than takin' out ANY ship that could lose 'em a war (so the flag thing is moot but I am sayin' some who were involved did either say "no flag" or a "small flag" or some "camouflaged" flag... whadda I know?
Okay, I went back to Ennes an' his testimony said (re the flag)
1. "it was dirty from the smoke and tattered from the wind"--so it's conceivable that SOME pilots perhaps were confused at some point... again, I think they figgered out it WAS a US ship but I could see some lookin' at a funky smoke & tattered ship--which was per Ennes supposed to be "hidin'" from all forces--he ADMITTED it was observing so as NOT to be noticed..make of that what'cha will...
Also WHY would multiple reconnaissance flyers be checkin' out the Liberty if they a) expected it to be there as Israel had panned it to be there and b) already KNEW what it was, what it was doin' and c) were already CERTAIN it was not Egyptian and was American... MY take is that whatever the flag--the ship was NOT supposed ta be there AND Israel had reason to believe it wasn't a US ship b/c of LBJ promisin' NOT to be in those close-by warters SO they had to send out planes flyin' low to DISCERN what they were dealin' with--and when they DID figger it out that it was a US ship THAT was when the one pilot said no--
I'll add that there were American pilots fightin' in that war (we know one who was Israel born but went BACK, leavin' his fam in NY State, to fight for Israel...)
Anywhooo
2. Ennes sez that at 7pm AFTER the first flag was replaced he insisted on an OVERSIZED 8x12 flag bein' raised in its stead... maybe to more demonstrably show it was indeed a US flag "as if" he felt there were some question...?
So I don't question his angle--but stained and tattered might have... at some point early on--caused some uncertainty--we'll never know... again, I'm sure the IDF knew it was American by the time shots were fired but if they admitted it was a spy ship then LBJ would'a looked really bad... so they "ate" it as a faked mistake...
FWIW when Ennes said that Nasser had ZERO intentions to attack Israel (so nu? those planes were there to distribute xmas toys?) and that Israel (how ironic) had been planning to take out Jordan, Egypt & Syria and attack THEM. So this is near-delusional--Israel only fought that war to exist... no way otherwise would they take such a risk against THREE giant Arab forces... what these understandably angry crewmen don't git is the "reasons"...
LAST THOUGHT... The Arizona was a US ship attacked by Japan and they lost about 1500 men. FDR KNEW about this and many way ORDERED the US to stand down and allow it--1500 US men wasted vs 34 spies... Does ANYONE hold FDR accountable? NOPE he's a full out hero (not to me!) Also there are many sites that report 300 "murdered" on the USS Liberty vs 34 (and 170 injured)--they take the 300 total crew an' use that figger....
I remember Phil Tournay stressing that the ship always had a flag up. A question: who was this Ram Ron, like did he have a vested interest in presenting the ship as unmarked. Note that the pilot who would not shoot at the USS Liberty know it was an American ship. Was it telepathy or was there a flag? My guess: there was a flag.
Elsa, in the interest of factual representation allowing your readers to form their own opinions, this information https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/israels-deadly-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-and-the-hijacking-of-american-foreign-policy/ is critical documentation. I really have no partisanship in the matter, it rather is your progressive derailment of legitimate information that is indigestible. Your main expert in the matter, Daisy Crackpot and her research based on Wikipedia and unseasoned Instagram Influencers is an insult to the veteran military eye witnesses and surviving crew of the USS Liberty, whose accounts you declare as a fairytale. It is akin to blaming a rape victim.
Israel lead a preemptive attack on its opponents. Its war victory had already been decided on the evening of June 5, 2 days before the USS liberty even arrived on the scene. There was no critical need to silence the official US mediator advocating for deescalation, as you hypothesize. The ship had been positively identified as American, as you see in the linked information.
What is done here is renewed disinformation warfare victimizing the survivors of a hideous crime to uphold antisemitism towards Israel.
I discount nothing that Phil Tourney says. Please reread. I completely accept his eye-witness testimony. That includes his testimony that the American flag was large and visible at all times, and that the USS Liberty was definitely identified as American by the Israelis.
I label as fantasy that there was US-Israeli collusion beforehand. Instead, the Americans clearly were not acting in collusion with Israel, by sending the USS Liberty so close to Israel (but always in international waters). There was absolutely no evidence of any plan the 2 nations agreed to, to sink the USS Liberty and blame Egypt, to increase American sympathy for Israel.
Afterwards, there was definite immediate American covering-up for Israeli actions - for the deliberate attack on the USS Liberty resulting in 34 dead and about 178 wounded. The cover-up included twice calling back the planes sent out to help those onboard the USS Liberty. The behavior of the American military toward survivors was immoral and shameful, including forcing them to sign nondisclosure papers, and never taking their testimony.
THANK YOU! Thank you your SANE and FACTUAL reply!!
I would like to address this......
"Tourney is a really virulent joo hater--at this link are screen grabs of his many quotes on the demonic/evil/zionist state an' how the evil Israelis "run" America... OK so he claims he's not anti-semitic... "
If I were in Tourney's (and all of the other men on that ship) position, who had thought that so-called 'Israel' were FRIENDS/ALLIES of the United States, and then ATTEMPTED TO MURDER ME, and SUCCEEDED in MURDERING MY SHIPMATES.......I would 'HATE', TOO!
And I would make it my LIFE'S MISSION to EXPOSE that EVIL.
The Khazarians/Khazarian State is NOT a Jewish state.
KHAZARIANS ARE NOT JEWISH!
THEREFORE, those who CONDEMN THEM, in ANY FORM, cannot BE 'anti-semitic'.
KHAZARIANS ARE NOT SEMITIC PEOPLES! PERIOD!
The Khazarian State was founded by the ROTHSCHILD'S.
The Rothschild's are NOT JEWISH!
The 'Star of David' is NOT a JEWISH symbol.
The 'Star of David' is a HOUSE OF ROTHSCHILD symbol.
Khazarians are SATANISTS. LITERAL Satanists.
And there is NO SHORTAGE OF REAL JEWS who WILL TELL YOU THIS!
There is NO SHORTAGE OF REAL JEWS who state that so-called 'Israel' should NOT EXIST!
There are books PUBLISHED BY REAL JEWS, who state the TRUTH about what 'Israel' IS.
(don't ask me to give the titles of these books, I don't recall them; but they ARE OUT THERE!)
The Khazarian PROPAGANDA MACHINE is one of THEE STRONGEST ON THIS PLANET!
PAID FOR by the TAXPAYERS of almost every country on this planet!
I am not against the state of Israel. It would be like being against Canada, the US, etc. Lots of the history is anything but great.
For your other point - that if you had been treated like Phil Tourney, you also might hate Jews - I completely agree. The way Phil Tourney was treated was evil, both by his own government and by the Israeli attack on a ship known to be American, the USS Liberty.
Good work on this. Stephen Green covers it all in "Taking Sides." So did my interview with him and the Officer of the Deck.
Note that it was a Jew who saved the USS Liberty from sinking, and getting it back to port. And Stephen Green was Jewish.
As I said earlier, signals were impeded, but the excuse that Israel didn't know that the ship was American is a blatant lie, and one of many that they trailed out as the attack was being exposed.
Perhaps the most telling fact is that Johnson wanted the ship sunk once he learned of the attack. I explained that fact several times in other comments. No ship, no problem. No discussion on these pages. The world would have been told that Egypt sunk the ship. Mission accomplished.
No, I don't recall any discussion of that. I remember discussing the beginnings of the six day war. The Canary Mission was created over 50 years after the six day war. I interviewed Stephen Green and the Officer of the Deck before that.
Sorry. I was no clear. One of the people cited by Daisy Moses today is from "Canary Mission" on Instagram. I do not know if what he cites is authentic. I have the sense I could be wading around for ages without getting on solid ground!!
I wrote 'em (their press dept) askin' fer the sources / citations fer their story so IF I hear back I'll gladly share.. YES, there IS no solid ground here... I hav more ta share in a moment (post some research t'day)
INFO TO SHARE... It's loong so only those truly interested kin check it out--I TOO am tryin' ta git ta the bottom of it all...
First about the "source"....
From 2012 Veteran's Today website. VT is one of the most anti-zionist/anti-jooish/anti-israeli sites you can find. It's publisher Kevin Barrett (of Truth Jihad / https://kevinbarrett.heresycentral.is/ ) has a massive following and recently complained on his popular substack of being defunded by (I'm recalling) Stripe because he's totally supported by his substack now. (cue "blame da joos"--no idear what really heppened...his take here: https://kevinbarrett.heresycentral.is/2024/12/ffwn-genocide-perps-cancel-critics/) FWIW he is a Muslim (by faith) and I have read some truly gut ripping anti-jooish stuff directly from him (vile IMHO but everyone's experience differs) BUT first--back in 2012 he was not nearly as ugly as he's gotten of late so it's a more measured story AND/but when the SOURCE of info comes from someone that would want Israel destroyed then it's worth considering some of the info he shares that he believes incriminates Israel but I think... at least explains a LOT (I say explains, not justifies)...
The Liberty’s naval designation was AGTR-5, meaning that it was the fifth ship in a series undertaking “Auxiliary General Technical Research.” (...) It had been refitted by the NSA (National Security Agency) for use as a signals intelligence (SIGINT) “platform” – a floating listening post. (REPEAT THOSE LAST THREE WORDS...-daisy) It had a very sophisticated system of radio antennae including a “Big Ear” sonar-radio listening device with a clear capability range of over 500 miles. Up to that distance, the Liberty could intercept virtually any form of wireless communication, including military and diplomatic traffic, telemetry data, rocket guidance and satellite control, among others. It could then decode and process the intercepted messages and relay them back to the NSA at Fort Meade, Maryland, via short-wave radio or through a very special communications system called TRSSCOM, using a 10,000-watt microwave signal bounced off the surface of the moon. The U.S.S. Liberty was America’s most advanced spy ship. (REPEAT THIS LAST SENTENCE...-daisy)
Below decks, the communications areas – which housed the computers, listening and decoding devices manned by linguistic experts and other personnel who were changed according to the ship’s mission – were off-limits to the crew, including Captain William I. McGonagle. (REPEAT THIS LAST SENTENCE...the SPY AREA & PERSONNEL were OFF LIMITS TO CAPT. AND CREW --would that NOT make the "innocent" CREW unaware of what the ship was DOING "to" Israel per LBJ's orders???----daisy)
The communication areas were under the direct control of an NSA technician (managing spook). The onboard NSA controller for the Liberty’s June ’67 mission was known to the crew as “the Major.” With two other civilians, he joined the Liberty at Rota in Spain shortly before the spy ship sailed from there for the Middle East on 2 June. The day after Dayan became minister of defense. (A coincidence?) (NOTES: first, the NSA CONTROLLER boarded shortly BEFORE the USS LIBERTY sailed for Israel's coast--i.e. he was HIRED for a specific MISSION and this literally happened the day after Dayan was put in chg. of DEFENSE--Dayan was intense, fearless, ruthless and not yer "temperate" kinda guy--so if LBJ wanted Israel to "play nice"--Dayan would have dispelled that vision PDQ... -daisy)
The Liberty’s movements were controlled by the JCS and the NSA in Washington. With a top speed of 18 knots, it was faster than most ships of its kind. (NOTE this - daisy) (...)
The Liberty’s mission was TOP SECRET and has not been acknowledged to this day.
It was on patrol, listening, because some in the Johnson administration at the executive level – perhaps Defence Secretary McNamara especially – did not trust the Israelis to keep their word with regard to the scope of the war.
(NOTE--REPEAT THIS LAST SENTENCE. I don't know WHAT Israel's WORD was or where ye might find it, but being attacked by foes on all sides in a multi national effort they would not be hangin' back fer LBJ.)
The Johnson administration had given the green light for Israel to attack Egypt and only Egypt. (NOTE: Since when does LBJ dictate to Israel what moves are "greenlit?" If Israel did not attack on the other fronts there would be NO ISRAEL -- which would make Kevin Barrett happy... an' many others, jus' sayin'-daisy) It was understood that the IDF would have to respond to Jordanian intervention – if it happened, but on no account was Israel to seek to widen the war for the purpose of taking Jordanian or Syrian territory. Apart from President Johnson’s public statement that he was as firmly committed as his predecessors had been to the “political independence and territorial integrity of all the nations in that area”, Washington’s fear was what could happen if the Israelis occupied Syrian territory. If they did there was a possibility of Soviet intervention (for face-saving reasons). Soviet leaders could just about live with the Egyptians being smashed by the IDF but not the Syrians too. (NOTE: so I agree with this, LBJ feared the USS would feel they HAD to intervene--but he was wrong, they did not, an' Israel survived- daisy)
RE DISTANCE... the Liberty was supposed ta be at least 100 miles from shore..however:
"the Liberty was 25 miles from Gaza and less than 30 miles from the nearest point on the Israeli coast. The ship was now perfectly placed to listen to IDF movement orders – orders for many Israeli units in Sinai to turn around and move north, to assist with the consolidation of Israel’s capture of the West Bank and, more importantly, an attack on Syria." (so how was this notta threat? -- daisy)
Through the CIA the Johnson administration was aware of the IDF’s secret agreement with the Syrian regime. (As revealed in the previous chapter of my book, Syria, in the countdown to war, agreed to put on only a token show of fighting when Israel attacked Egypt). (NOTE: I know zilch about this--daisy) So it, the Johnson administration, was reasonably confident that the Syrians would not seek to widen the war by engaging the Israelis in any serious way. The name of the U.S. counter-intelligence game was therefore preventing Israel from attacking Syria. That was the Liberty’s mission. (NOTE: interesting--would like proof but either way this angle sez the LBJ was tryin' ta control Israel --daisy)
When the Liberty was ordered to the Middle East, everybody who needed to know did know that the Israelis would have only a few days in which to smash the Egyptians – because the Security Council would demand a quick end to the fighting and Israel would have to stop when it was shown the international red card. This meant that when Israel went to war with Egypt, it would be assigning the bulk of its armor to the Egyptian front. The point? If Israel then decided to attack Syria, it would have to re-deploy armor, very quickly, from the Egyptian front to the Syrian front. The orders for any such redeployment would be given by wireless – from Dayan’s Ministry of Defence in Tel Aviv to the commanders in the field and they, naturally, would talk to each other. If there was such radio chatter, the Liberty would pick it up and pass it urgently to the NSA in Washington. President Johnson would then demand that the Israelis abort their intended attack on Syria. So long as the Liberty was on station and functioning, the U.S. would have some control of Israel. (NOTE: rinse an' repeat the last highlighted point which confirms LBJ was tryin' ta control Israel. Israel, of course, doesn't like any other nation to control IT --daisy)
In short, the Liberty was the Johnson administration’s insurance policy. It was there to prevent Israel’s hawks from going over the top and, in a worst-case scenario, provoking Soviet intervention and possibly World War III. (One could have said then, and one could say with even more point today, that with the Zionist state as its friend the U.S. does not need enemies.) From Dayan’s perspective… Before he could order an invasion of Syria for the purpose of grabbing the Golan Heights for keeps, the Liberty had to be put out of business. (NOTE: Soviets did not intervene, an' tho' I would not agree that Israel's "hawks" go "over the top"... they are more like scorpions... not SEEKING prey at all but ruther stingin' to the death if any creater gits too close... again, not defendin' but assessin' --daisy)
(...)
As Stephen Green noted, “The IDF command did not have to consult Jane’s Fighting Ships to learn about the eavesdropping capabilities of the Liberty.”[v] Israeli military intelligence had a very close working relationship with both the CIA and the U.S. Defence Department and knew well that the Liberty could listen to the movement orders for IDF units – movement orders that, on the evening–the morning of 7-8 June, would be concerned with rushing units from Sinai to the northern Galilee border with Syria, in preparation for an invasion.
(NOTE: this was jooish Capt. Green--who was pro-Israel fwiw--confirming in a QUOTE that the US knew fully of the Liberty's capabilities / mission...He may have been kept physically from the "spy office" on the ship but he shares what he knew and later learned AND in his book it's said that:
"His principal source for the story was somebody who claimed to have been involved in the still Top Secret mission from start to finish. Though he had to protect the identity of his deep-throat and therefore did not name him, Green said he had “verified the story circumstantially” by checking “Air Force unit histories, commanders’ names, technical details and so forth.” He also noted that while he was seeking to confirm the story through contacts with other individuals who might have participated in the operation and senior officials in the Pentagon, White House, and State Department, Air Force intelligence contacted several members of the units involved “reminding them of their obligations to maintain silence on any previous intelligence missions in which they had been involved.”[ Stephen Green op. cit., pp. 209-10]"
...so, IS IT NOT ODD that Miz Owens & friends IGNORE THIS, downplan the spy stuff?--NEVER will they state this info as it compromises Israel's "reasons" for blowin' up the boat!--daisy)
I so like yer callin' this a "braid" as decades have passed, info was twisted, there was a HUSH UP an' secrecy, some folks were ASKED ta be silent but even they were kept in the dark--likely not sure WHOM they were defendin' with their silence (could it be they thought the US was defendin' Israel an' not itself?) Like with a braid, parts are "covered" by other twists...and...of course, it's hairy (lol) so....It's like a Russian Doll with nested layers this tale...
I just posted more info... I'm gonna "call it a day" with grattytude fer your indulgence an' that of all yer readers tryin' ta get a handle on this--some curious, some dee-skusted 'bout my line of questionin'--but isn't that often the case in these fraught times?! for now havin' shed light on this whole story muchly--best I can, I'll only add any info from CanaryMission if they offer "sources"
I know MOST will not wanna go beyond the Candy (ha ha) as it's "sweet" music that appeals to existin' "tastes" but I offer a pic'ture more complex an'...savour-y (likely less palatable).
As they say in the moovies... "over an' out!"
Elsa, I greatly appreciate yer publishin' the added "facts ma'am" that I'm sharin'. I never doubted ANY testimony includin' that of Tourney--only the conclusions drawn.
I'm happy ta be DIS-proven, yet not one testimony so far disproves what I've shared. Is it untrue that Tourney has posted some ugly statements 'bout Israel? Is it untrue that the AA signal was ignored? That LBJ tried ta deny his written promise that the ship would NOT come inta those international warters? NOBUDDY has made any such statement...
They argue "me" with ad-hominem attacks that I'm a crackpot (100% true as I tend NOT ta believe the OFF-FISH-ALL nooze an' I wax/think heterodoxically")-- They say the fella from Canary Mission is lyin' because he's just some "dude influencer." SO what is Candace Owens? An actress! (Mee too!) Her headshot was on the innertubes for years. She is no historian. And again, nothin' I have said contradicts ANY of the testimony of the actual men that served on that ship, not one; it just sez that "stuff was left out. IMPORTANT stuff.
Life Site Nooz hates da joos & Israel an' they offer no new facts--they repeat Candace's "take" 100%--so how is zat better journalism? If someone "known" like Tucker Carlson were to repeat Candace's "take" on the matter would it mean it's true? (not fer me!)
Israel formally cannot admit what I believe IS the real truth that they were "screwed" by the US but had ta hush it up b/c they needed the US. The US/Israeli relationship has always been...thorny.
Anywhoo--most who say what I'm sharin' which to me is just questions.... but ones that make a heck of a lot MORE sense than the official story--come back with just a dose of venom. (btw there are NO Khazarians on the planet--the territory known as Khazaria existed for 300 yrs max and produced no joos b/c most livin' there were converted turks--joos have no ottoman genetics...'nuther story, nuther time)
I'm used ta the "haters" an' they seem to gravitate to any story where Israel EQUALS evil incarnate. So what I say--what yer also seein' with me here (that there is QUITE a different story)--falls on deaf ears. They see only what Tourney sees... an' sadly even Tourney was duped... he'll never know--entire crew kept in the dark. I'm an armchair detective an' clearly that ain't good enuf fer some readers.
But Elsa, I APPRECIATE yer puttin' this out there to your follerin' too... it's gutsy ta do it! Perhaps folks are not ready to hear a story that goes against the narrative and the beautiful truth tellin' talkin' head, Miss Owens. Really, folks SO WANT to believe her an' this is proof of what they wanna believe--it's da joos, always da joos, an' Israel "controlled" the US so it's the fault of the joos that Israel screwed the Americans...killed Americans "b/c of da joos"... So much tidier.
As ye know, I'm not an historian but I'm a curious "student" of hist'ry--an' I read an' research & dig up stuff--IF that is "insultin' " to the "intelligence" of yer readership then so be it... No offence intended--in fact I hope to appeal TO the innate intelligence of those who kin say stop, wait, listen... But fer some I guess only "recognized" pundits (pun-DITZ) are worth lendin' an ear to.
In my wacky world George Carlin'll tell you more 'bout how the world works than near-all of our elected officials. I couldn't fill his big boots but let's say I'm an admirer!
What I write is for the record (not the wreck-herd!)... one day if the truth does come out an' it resembles what I'm sayin'--what brainiac John Loftus is sayin'--what the Canary Mission guy (who is NOT jooish) is sayin' then I'll be glad I got it out there--an' grateful to YOU for also sharin' it.
NOBUDDY is forced ta listen... but keepin' an open mind is not a bad thing no matter WHOM one hates or WHOM they would "like" to blame...
Grateful as always!
Daisy
For me the exploration is an ongoing search for what was actually going on.
My current conclusion (more details to be worked in):
No Israel-US collusion before the attack. Instead the US acted against Israeli interests in sending the USS Liberty to where it was.
Afterwards, once Israel started the attack, LBJ colluded in stopping help from going to aid the USS Liberty and in the cover-up story - almost certainly to save his own face, as he had ordered the boat to where it was, probably fantasying this would deter Israel from attacking the Golan Heights, and instead it just led Israel to attack the USS Liberty - yes a war crime as the boat was in international waters, but on the other side was it self-defense if the boat was relaying messages it was intercepting from Israel. Anyway, if LBJ did not collude in helping strengthen Israel's cover-up story (that it mistook the boat for an Egyptian boat), that would have brought to light LBJ’s role in sending the boat to where it was attacked.
For CanaryMission, I have come to believe, based on what he says, that this is not someone to be trusted. One, he claims no US flag was flown on the USS Liberty. This goes against the testimony of 2 crew members, one of whom ordered, shortly before the attack, a bright fresh flag to be hoisted. He also claims 5 messages were sent to the USS Liberty - something I have heard from no other source. There's also something else but I forget it at the moment. Finally, he does not give his source, which discredits him for me.
And then, Daisy Moses, you found Phil Tourney's antisemitic comments and called him something like a rabid antisemite. Phil started very pro-Israel, as he mentions in the interview. Had you been treated as Phil was by Israel - ship attacked, torpedoed, 34 dead, 178 or so wounded, 2 lifeboats sunk and the third taken away - and then deserted by your own country as well which forced you to be silent about what happened - you might also end up against the people who had done this. I'm not saying it's good to generalize, but I consider it very understandable.
Comment very welcome.
ps I wrote to the press contact at Canary Mission--I'll see if they git back ta me with sources, citations. Their Mission is to be "Canaries" callin' out blatant anti-antisemitism (includin'--to their credit!--when joos perpetrate it) so they too have an agenda I should state. They are not the ADL tryin' to ban or silence folks--just sharin' incidents and comments on them. (from all I can gather) My own angle is if they tell the truth an' reveal facts that are hidden, that's helpful. If they are messin' with the truth--then they should be disregarded--I haven't seen that accusation confirmed. However even Candace Owens who imho is anti-semitic (and is free to say whatever she likes) has revealed a testimony and some facts that are truthful and helpful and were unfamiliar to many--I don't fault her for that no matter how she "feels;" it's the wild conclusions she draws so confidently (drawin' in her devoted crowd) creating a scenario that is false (imho) / that I differ with.
I never object ta folks sharin' facts even when they are ugly or conflict with each other (as I wrote--folks even remember the same thing differently--on 911 some heard "explosions" others did not...)
So as ya said, "just the facts ma'am"-- for those of us who wanna see that DRAGNET fit the right perp to the right crime(s)!
ps loved that show in reruns--never thought much 'bout it but Dragnet, Columbo, all those shows primed some of us (this crackpot here!) to look at things like people bein' "framed" or the wrong person bein' "fingered" an' all that jazz... ha ha, mebbe that boob tube watchin' did me a little good ;-)
I'm with ya Elsa--tho' I'm more likely ta side with Canary Mission guy--THIS is the thing--Tourney himself (I think it was Tourney if not the other guy) that there was NO FLAG UP an' he (Tourney or the other guy name starts w/ E.) said "No, you'll put that flag up" to which the crew member said "But it's our last flag" and the person giving testimony said, "Do what I say--use our last flag--we need that flag up."
NOW I recall that flag went up AFTER the reconnaissance planes finished their mission AND after the first shots were fired. Correct me if I'm wrong. That covers Canary Mission--in the actual ship crew testimony. There was a time with no flag.
How long?
RE "This goes against the testimony of 2 crew members, one of whom ordered, shortly before the attack, a bright fresh flag to be hoisted. "
The "bright fresh flag" was to be hoisted b/c there was no flag as I recall hearin'--then we are back to all stories sayin' the same thing...Canary's too...
Second--re the 5 messages sent that you're dismissing because nobody else mentioned them. WHY would nobody else mention them? Their existence makes BOTH the current US story AND the Israel Cover story FALSE (which they both are!). So it would not be common fact... So, better instead of just saying that he must be faker because you haven't read his claims elsewhere, would it not be BETTER to wonder and then ASK: "How did he know? Did he look at documents? There were FOIA documents--it might be right there!" WHY NOT contact him vs just dismissing him? He seems well-informed (imho) and not like a plant. If yer spidey sense is up then of course don't go there -- but imho he might be approachable...
Re your last comment that Tourney is justified sayin' such awful things about Israel/Zionists because he was shot is only "somewhat" understandable as I've heard other testimony-includin' the fella I quoted while mentioning Loftus--who was also on the ship and who did not go joo-hatin'. Elsa, these were young poor Southern boys who had (per the lawyer--that was it--he was a lawyer on the ship) NEVER met a joo an' back in 1967 there was a lotta mistrust (to say the least) for those you don't know and there was a lot of anti-semitism in the South. Believe me (or don't lol ;-) I don't buy the vitriol. I DO buy he wants answers and was "ANGRY" at Israel for "doing him wrong" with the US covering up for Israel. But I don't think Israel or joos wanted him dead. There are all kinds of ways people lash out but his rhetoric is different--imho.
Yer reader who mentioned this Capt. Green who "saved" the ship an' who was actually Jewish (I've yet to hear his testimony myself) -- Green didn't go off on the zionists OR LBJ for that matter (he did suspect a cover up) or turn against Israel but he could have--he could have been killed too! He DID know his ship was a spy ship though...
Hate often drives people to say really ugly things that may not be true. Many think the hate is justified "based on" the understandings the haters have. More importantly, such blind hate can blind these people from seeing other stories, other facts--imho that's the case with Tourney. BUT it's okay that folks may see Tourney as fully justified in hatin' Israel, joos, and turning on them... I feel it comes from a lack of understanding AND from a desire not to understand. I think the truth (what I see as the truth) would hurt more--if it was not "da evil joos" afterall. (Well, it was but it wasn't as again, they would not risk losing a war to save 34 men... EVEN I'll add--if ALL The men on that boat were joos!) Thanks as always...
I want evidence of the existence of those 5 messages. Canary Mission does not do that. I can claim anything. Those claims are fact-claims, not facts.
By the way, I agree that we need to go beyond the blanket hate and anger and what-not. Like the blanket condemnation of Germans throughout the West, including Germany, for the Holocaust.
yup, agreed 100% we need to see the evidence from all these folks on all sides--the issue is that folks have agendas--I generally believe all the crew members just tellin' what happened--the issues comes when they draw crazy conclusions (that Israel wanted to take over 3 countries, really? That this was planned a year in advance...). I'll look at "canary guy" an' see what I can find (I'm not on any social media so no guarantees as sometimes you need to be a member to reach out/contact) thx!
The Israeli planes had been flying overhead for hours. The flag was taken down only to be replaced. For that, also watch the interview with Ennes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=tXCnXH9_FYQ&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Ftruthsummit.substack.com%2F.
And something you will love hearing: the pilot of the first plane that was supposed to attack the USS Liberty refused to do it, turned around. He was arrested as soon as he returned to base. Someone with strong integrity. The source (and the name of the pilot) are in there somewhere.
thanks! I'll listen again--I could be mis-rememberin' about the timing--but I did recall the flag was actually down for a time--not sure if this was the testimony where one crew member said it... YUP I had heard about the pilot that refused--I think that IS a sign of integrity but I don't judge those that DID follow orders (again, I might be biased even tho' I know there have always been--in most military divisions--some rotten fellas regardless of nation) that in the middle of a war if yer asked to take down a spy ship that might compromise yer ability to win that war--a war that is more precarious IF you are not quite playin' accordin' to Hoyle BECAUSE the deck's stacked against ya! So I could not "cheer on" nor decry what Israel did in takin' out that ship--I can have some "understanding" which is far more generous than most accord Israel now'daze. I'll go an' listen an' will try ta see if I find where I "recall" hearin' there was--for a time--no flag (thx again!)
AHA! found it--the no-flag statement--
https://alcpress.org/mirrors/gtr5.com/evidence/ramron.htm
Col. Ram Ron
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/israeli/ram-ron-report.pdf
"On the contrary, it seems that the ship made every effort to conceal her identity, both by flying a small flag which was unidentifiable."
Ironically one of yer posters accused me of usin' WickyPedia for "all my facts" which was mostly not true but I will share this from that same site (it's not all baloney an' there is CERTAINLY a lotta anti-Israeli material on Wikipedia...) -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident#CITEREFIDF_Ram_Ron_Report1967
" In a post-attack statement, the pilots said they saw no distinguishable markings or flag on the ship.
SO there may even be more onnit--I gotta git goin' as I have an early mornin' trip to a notary tomorree--but I'm recallin' more than a few testimonies that at least for a time there was either no flag or only a small flag--Ram Ron's is just one've 'em I think... So to write off the Canary in the Coalmine for sharin' what some others have said under oath is not totally fair to him. For any "real" incident different folks remember differently---Rashomon! or more likely simple line ups where victims are to identify the "perps" and often CANNOT -- even when they were close to their faces! They often mis-remember facts--a scarf a hat the color of clothing... This is with real victims so there are 100% truthful testimonies that may DIFFER. I'm not SURE at all 'bout this flag thing.
I DO believe (an' this is why I don't put much weight into the flag argument ANYWAY) that the IDF did discern it WAS a US ship--AND they shot it up anyway b/c orders AND b/c spy ship--22 CIA (? I think I heard that it was CIA members) spyin' on 'em! At that point savin' face for LBJ was less important than takin' out ANY ship that could lose 'em a war (so the flag thing is moot but I am sayin' some who were involved did either say "no flag" or a "small flag" or some "camouflaged" flag... whadda I know?
Quite a "thick" plot tho'!
Okay, I went back to Ennes an' his testimony said (re the flag)
1. "it was dirty from the smoke and tattered from the wind"--so it's conceivable that SOME pilots perhaps were confused at some point... again, I think they figgered out it WAS a US ship but I could see some lookin' at a funky smoke & tattered ship--which was per Ennes supposed to be "hidin'" from all forces--he ADMITTED it was observing so as NOT to be noticed..make of that what'cha will...
Also WHY would multiple reconnaissance flyers be checkin' out the Liberty if they a) expected it to be there as Israel had panned it to be there and b) already KNEW what it was, what it was doin' and c) were already CERTAIN it was not Egyptian and was American... MY take is that whatever the flag--the ship was NOT supposed ta be there AND Israel had reason to believe it wasn't a US ship b/c of LBJ promisin' NOT to be in those close-by warters SO they had to send out planes flyin' low to DISCERN what they were dealin' with--and when they DID figger it out that it was a US ship THAT was when the one pilot said no--
I'll add that there were American pilots fightin' in that war (we know one who was Israel born but went BACK, leavin' his fam in NY State, to fight for Israel...)
Anywhooo
2. Ennes sez that at 7pm AFTER the first flag was replaced he insisted on an OVERSIZED 8x12 flag bein' raised in its stead... maybe to more demonstrably show it was indeed a US flag "as if" he felt there were some question...?
So I don't question his angle--but stained and tattered might have... at some point early on--caused some uncertainty--we'll never know... again, I'm sure the IDF knew it was American by the time shots were fired but if they admitted it was a spy ship then LBJ would'a looked really bad... so they "ate" it as a faked mistake...
FWIW when Ennes said that Nasser had ZERO intentions to attack Israel (so nu? those planes were there to distribute xmas toys?) and that Israel (how ironic) had been planning to take out Jordan, Egypt & Syria and attack THEM. So this is near-delusional--Israel only fought that war to exist... no way otherwise would they take such a risk against THREE giant Arab forces... what these understandably angry crewmen don't git is the "reasons"...
LAST THOUGHT... The Arizona was a US ship attacked by Japan and they lost about 1500 men. FDR KNEW about this and many way ORDERED the US to stand down and allow it--1500 US men wasted vs 34 spies... Does ANYONE hold FDR accountable? NOPE he's a full out hero (not to me!) Also there are many sites that report 300 "murdered" on the USS Liberty vs 34 (and 170 injured)--they take the 300 total crew an' use that figger....
OKAY off to the "races" (countin' sheep!)
I remember Phil Tournay stressing that the ship always had a flag up. A question: who was this Ram Ron, like did he have a vested interest in presenting the ship as unmarked. Note that the pilot who would not shoot at the USS Liberty know it was an American ship. Was it telepathy or was there a flag? My guess: there was a flag.
Elsa, in the interest of factual representation allowing your readers to form their own opinions, this information https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/israels-deadly-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-and-the-hijacking-of-american-foreign-policy/ is critical documentation. I really have no partisanship in the matter, it rather is your progressive derailment of legitimate information that is indigestible. Your main expert in the matter, Daisy Crackpot and her research based on Wikipedia and unseasoned Instagram Influencers is an insult to the veteran military eye witnesses and surviving crew of the USS Liberty, whose accounts you declare as a fairytale. It is akin to blaming a rape victim.
Israel lead a preemptive attack on its opponents. Its war victory had already been decided on the evening of June 5, 2 days before the USS liberty even arrived on the scene. There was no critical need to silence the official US mediator advocating for deescalation, as you hypothesize. The ship had been positively identified as American, as you see in the linked information.
What is done here is renewed disinformation warfare victimizing the survivors of a hideous crime to uphold antisemitism towards Israel.
I discount nothing that Phil Tourney says. Please reread. I completely accept his eye-witness testimony. That includes his testimony that the American flag was large and visible at all times, and that the USS Liberty was definitely identified as American by the Israelis.
I label as fantasy that there was US-Israeli collusion beforehand. Instead, the Americans clearly were not acting in collusion with Israel, by sending the USS Liberty so close to Israel (but always in international waters). There was absolutely no evidence of any plan the 2 nations agreed to, to sink the USS Liberty and blame Egypt, to increase American sympathy for Israel.
Afterwards, there was definite immediate American covering-up for Israeli actions - for the deliberate attack on the USS Liberty resulting in 34 dead and about 178 wounded. The cover-up included twice calling back the planes sent out to help those onboard the USS Liberty. The behavior of the American military toward survivors was immoral and shameful, including forcing them to sign nondisclosure papers, and never taking their testimony.
THANK YOU! Thank you your SANE and FACTUAL reply!!
I would like to address this......
"Tourney is a really virulent joo hater--at this link are screen grabs of his many quotes on the demonic/evil/zionist state an' how the evil Israelis "run" America... OK so he claims he's not anti-semitic... "
If I were in Tourney's (and all of the other men on that ship) position, who had thought that so-called 'Israel' were FRIENDS/ALLIES of the United States, and then ATTEMPTED TO MURDER ME, and SUCCEEDED in MURDERING MY SHIPMATES.......I would 'HATE', TOO!
And I would make it my LIFE'S MISSION to EXPOSE that EVIL.
The Khazarians/Khazarian State is NOT a Jewish state.
KHAZARIANS ARE NOT JEWISH!
THEREFORE, those who CONDEMN THEM, in ANY FORM, cannot BE 'anti-semitic'.
KHAZARIANS ARE NOT SEMITIC PEOPLES! PERIOD!
The Khazarian State was founded by the ROTHSCHILD'S.
The Rothschild's are NOT JEWISH!
The 'Star of David' is NOT a JEWISH symbol.
The 'Star of David' is a HOUSE OF ROTHSCHILD symbol.
Khazarians are SATANISTS. LITERAL Satanists.
And there is NO SHORTAGE OF REAL JEWS who WILL TELL YOU THIS!
There is NO SHORTAGE OF REAL JEWS who state that so-called 'Israel' should NOT EXIST!
There are books PUBLISHED BY REAL JEWS, who state the TRUTH about what 'Israel' IS.
(don't ask me to give the titles of these books, I don't recall them; but they ARE OUT THERE!)
The Khazarian PROPAGANDA MACHINE is one of THEE STRONGEST ON THIS PLANET!
PAID FOR by the TAXPAYERS of almost every country on this planet!
TRUTH IS TRUTH!
LIES & PROPAGANDA do NOT CHANGE THAT!
I am not against the state of Israel. It would be like being against Canada, the US, etc. Lots of the history is anything but great.
For your other point - that if you had been treated like Phil Tourney, you also might hate Jews - I completely agree. The way Phil Tourney was treated was evil, both by his own government and by the Israeli attack on a ship known to be American, the USS Liberty.
Good work on this. Stephen Green covers it all in "Taking Sides." So did my interview with him and the Officer of the Deck.
Note that it was a Jew who saved the USS Liberty from sinking, and getting it back to port. And Stephen Green was Jewish.
As I said earlier, signals were impeded, but the excuse that Israel didn't know that the ship was American is a blatant lie, and one of many that they trailed out as the attack was being exposed.
Perhaps the most telling fact is that Johnson wanted the ship sunk once he learned of the attack. I explained that fact several times in other comments. No ship, no problem. No discussion on these pages. The world would have been told that Egypt sunk the ship. Mission accomplished.
Did you also cover the stuff from Canary Mission? (new for me.)
No, I don't recall any discussion of that. I remember discussing the beginnings of the six day war. The Canary Mission was created over 50 years after the six day war. I interviewed Stephen Green and the Officer of the Deck before that.
Sorry. I was no clear. One of the people cited by Daisy Moses today is from "Canary Mission" on Instagram. I do not know if what he cites is authentic. I have the sense I could be wading around for ages without getting on solid ground!!
I wrote 'em (their press dept) askin' fer the sources / citations fer their story so IF I hear back I'll gladly share.. YES, there IS no solid ground here... I hav more ta share in a moment (post some research t'day)
INFO TO SHARE... It's loong so only those truly interested kin check it out--I TOO am tryin' ta git ta the bottom of it all...
First about the "source"....
From 2012 Veteran's Today website. VT is one of the most anti-zionist/anti-jooish/anti-israeli sites you can find. It's publisher Kevin Barrett (of Truth Jihad / https://kevinbarrett.heresycentral.is/ ) has a massive following and recently complained on his popular substack of being defunded by (I'm recalling) Stripe because he's totally supported by his substack now. (cue "blame da joos"--no idear what really heppened...his take here: https://kevinbarrett.heresycentral.is/2024/12/ffwn-genocide-perps-cancel-critics/) FWIW he is a Muslim (by faith) and I have read some truly gut ripping anti-jooish stuff directly from him (vile IMHO but everyone's experience differs) BUT first--back in 2012 he was not nearly as ugly as he's gotten of late so it's a more measured story AND/but when the SOURCE of info comes from someone that would want Israel destroyed then it's worth considering some of the info he shares that he believes incriminates Israel but I think... at least explains a LOT (I say explains, not justifies)...
HERE GOES:
https://www.veteranstodayarchives.com/2012/06/07/alan-hart-israels-attack-on-the-uss-liberty-the-full-story/
The Liberty’s naval designation was AGTR-5, meaning that it was the fifth ship in a series undertaking “Auxiliary General Technical Research.” (...) It had been refitted by the NSA (National Security Agency) for use as a signals intelligence (SIGINT) “platform” – a floating listening post. (REPEAT THOSE LAST THREE WORDS...-daisy) It had a very sophisticated system of radio antennae including a “Big Ear” sonar-radio listening device with a clear capability range of over 500 miles. Up to that distance, the Liberty could intercept virtually any form of wireless communication, including military and diplomatic traffic, telemetry data, rocket guidance and satellite control, among others. It could then decode and process the intercepted messages and relay them back to the NSA at Fort Meade, Maryland, via short-wave radio or through a very special communications system called TRSSCOM, using a 10,000-watt microwave signal bounced off the surface of the moon. The U.S.S. Liberty was America’s most advanced spy ship. (REPEAT THIS LAST SENTENCE...-daisy)
Below decks, the communications areas – which housed the computers, listening and decoding devices manned by linguistic experts and other personnel who were changed according to the ship’s mission – were off-limits to the crew, including Captain William I. McGonagle. (REPEAT THIS LAST SENTENCE...the SPY AREA & PERSONNEL were OFF LIMITS TO CAPT. AND CREW --would that NOT make the "innocent" CREW unaware of what the ship was DOING "to" Israel per LBJ's orders???----daisy)
The communication areas were under the direct control of an NSA technician (managing spook). The onboard NSA controller for the Liberty’s June ’67 mission was known to the crew as “the Major.” With two other civilians, he joined the Liberty at Rota in Spain shortly before the spy ship sailed from there for the Middle East on 2 June. The day after Dayan became minister of defense. (A coincidence?) (NOTES: first, the NSA CONTROLLER boarded shortly BEFORE the USS LIBERTY sailed for Israel's coast--i.e. he was HIRED for a specific MISSION and this literally happened the day after Dayan was put in chg. of DEFENSE--Dayan was intense, fearless, ruthless and not yer "temperate" kinda guy--so if LBJ wanted Israel to "play nice"--Dayan would have dispelled that vision PDQ... -daisy)
The Liberty’s movements were controlled by the JCS and the NSA in Washington. With a top speed of 18 knots, it was faster than most ships of its kind. (NOTE this - daisy) (...)
The Liberty’s mission was TOP SECRET and has not been acknowledged to this day.
It was on patrol, listening, because some in the Johnson administration at the executive level – perhaps Defence Secretary McNamara especially – did not trust the Israelis to keep their word with regard to the scope of the war.
(NOTE--REPEAT THIS LAST SENTENCE. I don't know WHAT Israel's WORD was or where ye might find it, but being attacked by foes on all sides in a multi national effort they would not be hangin' back fer LBJ.)
The Johnson administration had given the green light for Israel to attack Egypt and only Egypt. (NOTE: Since when does LBJ dictate to Israel what moves are "greenlit?" If Israel did not attack on the other fronts there would be NO ISRAEL -- which would make Kevin Barrett happy... an' many others, jus' sayin'-daisy) It was understood that the IDF would have to respond to Jordanian intervention – if it happened, but on no account was Israel to seek to widen the war for the purpose of taking Jordanian or Syrian territory. Apart from President Johnson’s public statement that he was as firmly committed as his predecessors had been to the “political independence and territorial integrity of all the nations in that area”, Washington’s fear was what could happen if the Israelis occupied Syrian territory. If they did there was a possibility of Soviet intervention (for face-saving reasons). Soviet leaders could just about live with the Egyptians being smashed by the IDF but not the Syrians too. (NOTE: so I agree with this, LBJ feared the USS would feel they HAD to intervene--but he was wrong, they did not, an' Israel survived- daisy)
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Wow!!! Fantastic info. You should be a full professor!! You are an amazing researcher.
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RE DISTANCE... the Liberty was supposed ta be at least 100 miles from shore..however:
"the Liberty was 25 miles from Gaza and less than 30 miles from the nearest point on the Israeli coast. The ship was now perfectly placed to listen to IDF movement orders – orders for many Israeli units in Sinai to turn around and move north, to assist with the consolidation of Israel’s capture of the West Bank and, more importantly, an attack on Syria." (so how was this notta threat? -- daisy)
Through the CIA the Johnson administration was aware of the IDF’s secret agreement with the Syrian regime. (As revealed in the previous chapter of my book, Syria, in the countdown to war, agreed to put on only a token show of fighting when Israel attacked Egypt). (NOTE: I know zilch about this--daisy) So it, the Johnson administration, was reasonably confident that the Syrians would not seek to widen the war by engaging the Israelis in any serious way. The name of the U.S. counter-intelligence game was therefore preventing Israel from attacking Syria. That was the Liberty’s mission. (NOTE: interesting--would like proof but either way this angle sez the LBJ was tryin' ta control Israel --daisy)
When the Liberty was ordered to the Middle East, everybody who needed to know did know that the Israelis would have only a few days in which to smash the Egyptians – because the Security Council would demand a quick end to the fighting and Israel would have to stop when it was shown the international red card. This meant that when Israel went to war with Egypt, it would be assigning the bulk of its armor to the Egyptian front. The point? If Israel then decided to attack Syria, it would have to re-deploy armor, very quickly, from the Egyptian front to the Syrian front. The orders for any such redeployment would be given by wireless – from Dayan’s Ministry of Defence in Tel Aviv to the commanders in the field and they, naturally, would talk to each other. If there was such radio chatter, the Liberty would pick it up and pass it urgently to the NSA in Washington. President Johnson would then demand that the Israelis abort their intended attack on Syria. So long as the Liberty was on station and functioning, the U.S. would have some control of Israel. (NOTE: rinse an' repeat the last highlighted point which confirms LBJ was tryin' ta control Israel. Israel, of course, doesn't like any other nation to control IT --daisy)
In short, the Liberty was the Johnson administration’s insurance policy. It was there to prevent Israel’s hawks from going over the top and, in a worst-case scenario, provoking Soviet intervention and possibly World War III. (One could have said then, and one could say with even more point today, that with the Zionist state as its friend the U.S. does not need enemies.) From Dayan’s perspective… Before he could order an invasion of Syria for the purpose of grabbing the Golan Heights for keeps, the Liberty had to be put out of business. (NOTE: Soviets did not intervene, an' tho' I would not agree that Israel's "hawks" go "over the top"... they are more like scorpions... not SEEKING prey at all but ruther stingin' to the death if any creater gits too close... again, not defendin' but assessin' --daisy)
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As Stephen Green noted, “The IDF command did not have to consult Jane’s Fighting Ships to learn about the eavesdropping capabilities of the Liberty.”[v] Israeli military intelligence had a very close working relationship with both the CIA and the U.S. Defence Department and knew well that the Liberty could listen to the movement orders for IDF units – movement orders that, on the evening–the morning of 7-8 June, would be concerned with rushing units from Sinai to the northern Galilee border with Syria, in preparation for an invasion.
(NOTE: this was jooish Capt. Green--who was pro-Israel fwiw--confirming in a QUOTE that the US knew fully of the Liberty's capabilities / mission...He may have been kept physically from the "spy office" on the ship but he shares what he knew and later learned AND in his book it's said that:
"His principal source for the story was somebody who claimed to have been involved in the still Top Secret mission from start to finish. Though he had to protect the identity of his deep-throat and therefore did not name him, Green said he had “verified the story circumstantially” by checking “Air Force unit histories, commanders’ names, technical details and so forth.” He also noted that while he was seeking to confirm the story through contacts with other individuals who might have participated in the operation and senior officials in the Pentagon, White House, and State Department, Air Force intelligence contacted several members of the units involved “reminding them of their obligations to maintain silence on any previous intelligence missions in which they had been involved.”[ Stephen Green op. cit., pp. 209-10]"
...so, IS IT NOT ODD that Miz Owens & friends IGNORE THIS, downplan the spy stuff?--NEVER will they state this info as it compromises Israel's "reasons" for blowin' up the boat!--daisy)