A big thank you to Daisy Moses for watching as much as she could take of Ole’s interview on the Holocaust. I saw I needed to put the questions in order, from simple questions about the numbers of deaths and the intended uses of the camps.
Hello Elsa I consider myself Jew, as others may consider themselves Christians, Muslims, no religion etc.. I think we the humanity continue being blinded by selfishness and hypocrisy, by jealousy, brainwashing, ignorance, unloveness (new term😂), to start the question is what is a Jew for you? Or for anyone who is discussing the matter, this is similar to say what is a Christian or a Muslim, none of the religions are homogeneous, far from that, to the point that orthodox Christians customs and views maybe near Judaism that Protestants Christians, having said that, most of us understand the dark sides of the followers of Abraham G_d as the leaders are humans and sadly religions had always a politic social interest in dominating the masses for individual gain! No religion is clean.. There are basic questions before we can engage on the ones you are putting forward... We are the result of our enviorment and our experiences, therefore any person mind is already predisposed to what they learn, suffer and live since they come to this world, most of us are ignorant of the reality of other religions at human level because we only experience consciousness in one life and therefore cannot be in two at the same time that will give us the possibility of a different view. Having said that, history says that as early as 1500 children in White Russia, will learn the Torah meaning to write and read, all children with money or not.. Judaism teaches the importance of learning and daily prayers maintain memory alive, this little thing for example is a big one in relation to what position a person may occupy in society, for many years if you were Jew you were forbidden to do many jobs, but lending money was allowed. We cannot charge interest in lending money to another Jew, but we can to a non jew. There are great Jews and nasty criminals ones, like any religion. Yet going back on who is a jew you will find that no one really knows who we are, who are our ascendents and as many time we have to run for our lives we spread all over the world, had to cover up our religion if we wanted our children to live, therefore a lot of people are not aware of their Jewish descendants... Having said that the history is told from a different perspectives to the groups of the population, there are no pure blood in any sense, the reason why the story of the hate against "Jews" understanding that a jew for someone is who has money in the bank, houses and power, sadly there are a lot of Jews that depend on their basic living from their communities, for others a Jew is a descendant of the 12 Tribes, having into account that 10 are lost, there are chances that a high number of people are from those 10 tribus, for others a Jew is the one who has an Israeli passport, this is another joke a lot of people specially from South America bought their Judaism from Rabbis that in reality do not believe in G_d to move to Israel... Elsa of course the same ones that killed Jews and no Jews are behind the story of the holocaust, wether dead numbers were inflated, this has been done from the ones who take benefit, not a normal Jew, for sure many were tortured, killed and there are too many no Jewish witness to deny it, as the fact that hundreds if not thousands of villages and cities with high Jewish population become empty, the houses, fields were taken by the governments of that time, I do believe it... I experience very light the madness of people when they need something to take their life frustration and what better that some one that you think will not be able to defend themselves!!! If we do not know who we are, after cov💉and all what has resurfaced from "governments" that suppose to protect us not their pockets, which shows countries are a fallacy, how we are waisting our time in debating themes created in purpose to promote hate and kill each other instead of focusing on helping each other? How we continue being manipulated, if the "Jews" are the guilty ones why 💉has killed and harm so many of us? Wake up stop letting to be brainwashed as has been happening for thousands of years.. Specially if you only read, hear one side of the story.. Jesus was a Jew, he spread the Torah and love among humanity, those who invented Christianity used his power and work to control the masses twisting his message.. Those who hate, who harm are not following Jesus teachings as they are not follow the Torah.. In Christians school is taught that Jesus was killed by the Jews, as if Jews have ever been a homogenous group, of course there are leaders Jews or not that should have never been in power, in Jews schools they teach Jesus as an impostor that is another lie, Jesus said he was the son of G-d as we are all his children! There was no "Christianity" back then, most of the people do not understand it was invented a few hundred years after by "Roman" leaders advised by group of people.. This can be true or not, depending how much research you have done, your own experiences, the capacity to open your heart and your mind to understand the manipulation of the humanity that starts by those slaves that accept money and power to create hate among us that we kill each other with excuses of scarcity, with brainwashing as if earth is not a common wellness, as if some have more right than others to a great experience that can be to live in harmony... Those that are bought with money, and don't dare to harm or who do not understand that we depend on each other, that want to resolve their problems harming others, are the ones who need help, the conversations the discussions should be about how to wake them up that torture, killings and abuse stops or at least is reduce.. Helping those slaves to understand what harm are they doing to themselves and the rest of us humanity can thrive.. There is a lot of to say in a text that has open my eyes to arrive to this conclusions
One wonders what the purpose of the holocaust was. One also wonders what the purpose of the war -- WWII -- was. I'm thinking that the main overarching purpose of both WWI and WWII (that you never read about in official histories) was the same: to establish Israel in Palestine. It didn't quite work after WWI, but it got close. The Ottoman Empire was greatly weakened, and the British took over Palestine. To complete the job they needed another war, and that did work. Both wars were maneuvered behind the scenes, as usual, by the Zionists. Zionism was a very big deal in the late 19th century, and the establishment of Israel post-WWII can be thought of as a successful campaign of war, intrigue, social engineering, and so on.
So what about the holocaust? Who wanted it, and why? I think we have to separate the Nazis on the one hand from the Zionists on the other. We don't know exactly what the Nazis wanted -- despite a mountain of commentary on the subject -- although it was likely some kind of combination of imprisonment, slave labor, and extermination. It's hard for anyone on the outside these days to know anything definite about all these conspiracies, especially the holocaust, since that is the one that looks to be the most protected.
Was the holocaust entirely a German/Nazi idea? That's the Party Line, to be sure, but I doubt it. We can't overlook the Zionists. What was their angle? They wanted to establish Israel in Palestine (not Uganda, forget about Uganda, that is clean out of the way). And it has been known since at least the time of Machiavelli that in order to hang on to conquered territory you have to colonize it. By that line of reasoning, from the Zionist perspective, the camps were mainly holding pens, the population of which could be drawn upon, at the conclusion of the war, to colonize Palestine/Israel. In the event the casualties were higher than might have been hoped, especially near the end of the war, due to the length of the war, logistics issues, and the Nazis getting carried away in their anti-Jewish zeal. But I doubt the six million figure is accurate; it's likely a number made up out of thin air for propaganda purposes. If they said six billion, that would have had more impact, but some wise guy could have pointed out that there weren't even six billion humans on earth at that time. If they said six, most people would just yawn and say "So what, a lot of people died in the war." What was needed was the largest number that could be successfully defended with the techniques of psychological warfare and conspiracy (most of it non-rational thinking); six million looks to be the number they came up with.
The holocaust probably wasn't unique. We recall that there were pogroms in Russia in the late 19th century (Fiddler on the Roof, anybody?). If the pogroms were a Zionist plan to route Jews to Palestine, it didn't work very well. A lot of them went to New York instead. If the Zionists reviewed this plan, which they probably did, they would have noticed that the emigrants had too many options, too much money, and too much freedom. So from this perspective the holocaust represented an improvement. At the end of the war those people, the survivors, were completely destitute. In other words a much higher proportion of them were routed to Palestine (versus the situation with the pogroms), soon to become the coveted Israel. Plots within plots, as someone has observed.
What was the the main reason for WW I and WW II? I do not believe it was setting up the state of Israel. I believe it had to do with the destruction of human rights and freedoms, and human power - the same kind of ting we are seeing these days.
Brother Nathanael is a 100% pro-Nazi nut who sadly wuz born jooish (a shame ta the race) an' ZO hated bein' a joo so much he sez anythin' he can -- such as that "ve eat babies!"( 'specially christian ones--watch out! he sez joos'll STEAL your lovely Christian Baby an' sacrifice 'im an' EAT 'im if ya walk by a church! Cross the Street NOW! listen ta goo'ol Bro Nathanel!"--he'll tell ya ve all hate Christians an' we schpit on 'em.
Elsa here's Austrian an' afaik wuz raised Christian (ta some degree) She grew up in a jooish neib. in Montreal. I'm SURE she kin chime in an' tell y'all if she wuz schpit on or her life threatened or if she knew of leetle boys eaten by cannibalistic joos?!
Believin' him--even as a former joo--is like pickin' out a Idi Amin Dada an' sayin' "he'z the best representative showin' ya what REAL Ugandans are like!"... Oh.... when it comes ta cannibalism...
Anywoo.... if yer all livin' Brother Nathael even the white supremacists eventually diss the guy...sheesh!
:) Nope, nor "schpit on or her life threatened or if she knew of leetle boys eaten by cannibalistic joos?!" A serious answer: it was all so low-key, often even unsaid and yet felt. I believe you know what I mean.
Right, zo Bro' Nathanel is off hiz rocker an' attracts flies that wanna bathe in a soiten kinda nectar...
You were put in the oppysit situation b/c most of Canada (Montreal too) wuz not jooish!--but here, like da joos in most places, you were the odd man out so ta speak. But fer most chews in America (Canada likely too) 'twas the oppysit. The only jew in a class (or only one of few).
My awareness is that joos (unrelated ta yer own fam / nation of origin) were not always treated well in America & likely Canada too... I know my fam had seen "no joos or dogs allowed" an' couldn't buy a home in certain neibs an' tho they didn't give a hoot 'bout country clubs, that too wuz a no-no. So there was a bit of wariness that lasted a looong time about how they were treated in the US...at least 3 generations but it lessened over time... as they sawr tolerance. Many had ta change names ta do bizness....
So in yer case I believe it wuz more like..."discomfort-felt" (on all sides) due ta it bein' "weird terrytory." It's hard fer one ta trust anyone when yer own "tribe/group" has been generally treated differently. This is troo fer any outside of any group.
Fer one year I had ta be in a very waspy privit skool in an area known ta be anti-semitic. Long story but the public skools got seriously dangerous an' a friend's lil' bro got knifed, another one burned with cigarettes so gettin' outta a baaad situation put me in a "strange" one-- So I got called Christ killler in 2nd grade an chased 'round the playground 'till I fell all bloody an' got chastised by the teacher (my fault she tol'me --I brought in a menorah fer show & tell an' the teacher said if I'd kept my mouth shut "nobuddy would'a known I wuz jooish").
Now, that wuz 'before 1980...at a time when ya'd think there'd be no such doin's in America. Things changed--a later skool found me not the only one. Bein' the only one kin be velly uncomfy--likely yer situation an' I'm sorry fer that. I don't think yer schoolmates were bred ta hate ya but perhaps ta be wary...
Not sure of the time fer yerself (nevah ask a laydee her age!) but the wounds over time on all sides take time ta heal. Decades...an' then a tiny bit of sumthin' still lies in the back of the mind... fer years in our fam it wuz dormant..
So all this ta say that haters like Bro Nathanel are not good guys... Methinks if you'd been put in a skool where 25% were jooish, half christian, an' the other 25 other faiths... you would not have feel the coolness of bein' an outsider. THAT's the meltin' pot I wuz mostly raised in...good stuff. But bein' the jooish outlier in a catholic skool likely might've been worse than what you experienced.... an' yet I've always had many catholic pals an' never generalized the bad behavior of those girls ('twas an all girls school) fer catholics in general. In fact, I grew up next door ta catholic fam of 17 whose youngest wuz my best pal fer years 'til they moved away. They ran a Catholic school an' bore nothin' but affection fer "us joos"
But fer the good Bro. Nat ta say all joos hate Christians an' spit on them an' eat 'em (seriously!) ain't troo. He's likely near 80 too... an' perhaps his upbringin' wuz a bit more on the wary side but I've been round Orthodox an' never have they behaved in any mean way towards the Christians 'round 'em.
Member, many listeners ta Bro Nat. have never met a joo--so they take his word fer it. Outside of the bigger cities, even in the US many can grow up never meetin' one've us!
ps I've never met a fellow chew that grew up ta hate Christians let alone "schpit" on them...goodness. I kin say I wuz taught Hitler was a velly bad man an' ta hate the Nazis--not ta hate anybuddy else includin' Germans (3 in our own immediate fambly)... Methinks my upbringin' wuz the norm. Likely more Christians t'day hate us joos more than the oppysit... I treat folks as indiv-i-chew-alls... an' I'm sorry fer any'buddy that's been treated poorly for "who they are"
Oh just 'memberin' my hubby's fambly is half jooish (from Vienna!) half Irish...so my kids got sum Austrian in 'em too!
I have met blanket being against all Germans and Austrians. I remember, when in high school, talking one afternoon in a park with a Jewish fellow student. He said he could never take me home to meet his parents. And later, when I went out with a Jewish fellow student at university and did meet his parents, they were very nice to my face, but not to him, when alone with him. It was not because I was non-Jewish (shiksa). It was because I was Austrian.
As for blanket anti-German and anti-Austrian, that has been the norm, in my experience - and not just among Jews, but just about all Western people - including Germans and Austrians. It's part of the dynamics - the mind control - that was done to just about all of us. I remember feeling this anti-Autrian and anti-German feeling myself.Veery powerful, though I knew I had not been born during World War II, and even had parents who were against anti-Semitism.
oh Elsa, I'm so sad an' sorry you had this experience. In high school (both 've 'em!) we had German exchange students, a German teacher & German coach (soccer, tho' I didn't play that m'self!) an' never heard of any issue whatever. In college, same--one'a the most famous professors we had wuz from Germany (ancient guy!) an' he knew Thomas Mann! (Herr Heller!) an' we all wanted ta take his lectures! I m'self studied at Goethe-Inst. in Berlin & Paris an' even a little back in NYC an' never sawr what'cher sayin'... in fact in Paris I had a good Austrian friend Christa. She thought it "witzig" that she had ta speak hoch deutsch with me an' not "dialekt" from her hometown in Austria but I needed ta work on the former! So many experiences over time an' nobuddy said ta me (as a joo OR as an American) not ta socialize with anyone from Austria or Germany. This wuz in the late 70's an' 80's an' beyond.... never the bias you mentioned.
So not only did any'buddy tell me NOT ta be nice ta Germans OR Austrians OR Christians--there were never any heard words of unkindness ('bout da Nazis, yessiree--but not in general 'bout Germans, Austrians, etc)... so growin' up in a liberal kinda lefty house, this wuz not my experience
But yer story is yers an' it's the trooth ya experienced--I'm not sure what made mine so different? My hometowns (Detroit then New Yawk City). Could it be location? Generational? Mystified--but so sorry fer treatment that wuz not "American" (or I guess "Canadian" either). That's unfortunate ta say the least...an' all that in spite of yer open-minded parents.
---added thoughts...
1. In NYC we had "Klein Deutschland" downtown an' Yorkville uptown--both populated by a mix of Germans (some Austrians) both jooish an' not... so this wuz "normale"... we all got along at least in mah time an' my hubbies (native new yawker himself)
2. In jooish kulcha there is a HigherArchy of sorts--the German Joos (not regular / non-jooish Germans) off'n acted quite high 'n mighty over us E.-EuroPeons... They felt more ASS-immolated (haha indeed), more "intellectual" -- presented a host of bi-asses (false) an' thus treated all others who didn't have their petty-gree as "lesser" humans--as dummies!
Doubtful THAT wuz what'cha experienced as it's only "'tween joos" but ta this day I call my (thankfully LATE) Ma's rotten huss-bind "Der Schtepvater" as he ordered my ma around like she wuz his maid, treated our fam like "doit"...an' talked town ta us as if we were full out "dummies." Part've it's jus' that he wuzza jerk but his whole fam wuz like that... So due ta that kinda snobbery there is a diff. wariness among E.Euro joos reserved fer the German chews--not universal by any means but we git our radar up as it's really a "thang."
Ironically my great uncle (German joo from Kentucky!) wuz the "wurst" of 'em--whip smart, didn't tolerate fools at all let alone well, an' warn't too happy 'bout his jooish roots BUT his wife an' the rest of us were eggceptions ta his not likin' joos in spite've him bein' one!--in fact he'd tell us WE were the only joos he liked... (sum kinda comply-mint, eh?) An' yet...he wuzz otherwise a dear man, a funny man, an' interestin' as all git out...
All this ta say that many groups hold views less than liberal--but I don't know that da joos (again, in my experience) ta be more biased than any other groups... in fact many of 'em bleedin' heart liberals ta the point of puttin' others "less fortunate" first at their own loss... but that's mental gymnastics I'll spare ya! anywhoo. thems my thoughts fer the evenin'... our eggsperiences DO color us fer life...
I'm glad Elsa, ta provide mah thoughts onnit. I feel that it's OK to question--ain't gotta problem with that. I will say that you're quotin' me quotin' what the Amazin' Ole said sometimes misleads the reader to think it's "me" sayin' certain things... or it misses the irony.
Fer eggzample, IMHO imposin' the clot shots & green pass duz put BB in the monster catty-gory (emphasis on the last word given blood on his hands) BUT I don't believe he's worse than MANY other leaders... in fact, inspite of the blood on his hands fer that fiasco alone, I believe it wuz unmitigated ego/hubris NOT wantin' to kill the joos or destroy Israel or "run the whirled" that motivated him. I think he wanted ta be FIRST (like DJT) in protecin' "HIS" pee-pull from a "deadly virus" an' to FIX his failing rep due to the not-so-goodnik Kaplanists plaguin' 'im daily I think he felt THIS great medical move would put him in the hist'ry books. Sucker'd in by a fatal flaw faster than warp speed. In the USA Birx & Fraudski snickered. I'm sure Bourla an' others did in Israel. But...anyway....
The man reason I wanna commint here is CHANGED PURPOSE which you don't address. For MOST of the War Hitler just wanted ta de-jew Germany an' the camps did just that. Long 'fore gas chambers, they rounded 'em up an' MANY were killed en masse an' on purpose in the streets, long 'fore any single gas chamber or method wuz built OR the intent to "just kill joos" formulated (Wannsee Conference). There are a few written documents (from hiz generals) that indicate WHERE an' WHEN Hitler decided to move from "lock 'em up, make 'em work, ship 'em to Palestine"... to "just kill 'em all" (no notta mercy killin' due ta lack'a food...gah!)
We joos have the Mufti (AraRat's Uncle) ta thank fer it as he convinced Hitler NOT ta deport 'em to Palestine... Mufti said too many joos there already. So Hitler deputized 'im and promised ta finish the job in Germany (an' in YourUP) an' ta help Mufti kill the rest of 'em AFTER he'd finished the war in YourUP. (an' dats the trooth... an Edith Ann raspberry follers...)
Then Mista Amazin's figgers are baloney b/c Ole only proposes official chambers in certain camps. First, not all, not even most were ever converted inta full out death camps (tho deaths DID occur & often...) But there were THOUSANDS of CAMPS an' not just in Germany--THOUSANDS. So y'all gotta recalculate given those numbers... Then it would NOT take 200 years. This, again, is why I keep sayin' talk to David Cole... he spent YEARS tryin' ta make things right after he's spent two dumb years promotin' a $4000 film he made fer the Church of Scientology an' he regrets denyin' the chambers EVEN tho he himself questions the numbers (I believe he's at 4.5 million more 'er less)
EVEN after the shift--from wantin' ta just git ridda joos ta killin' em (an' anyone that does not acknowledge there is a shift is bein' dishonest--ya'll know EVEN VE CHEWS ALL recognize it--the "OFFICIAL STORY" from Yad Vashem recognizes it--we all KNOW round up the chews wuz not kill da joos--that came later--so even AFTER the shift...it wuz not just okay, here we invent gas chambers... it was a PROCESS an' lotsa joos were murdered in various ways as the genius figgered it all out. Don't count 'em? Yer call... I would.
Zo, re Amazin' Ole, duz the man NOT know 'bout the mobile chambers (big ol' trucks Gas vans were modified commercial trucks, typically models from German manufacturers such as Opel or Saurer. They were equipped with airtight, hermetically sealed cargo compartments where victims were placed. The exhaust pipes of these vehicles were redirected into the sealed compartments, filling them with lethal carbon monoxide gas) Thus the gas hose wuz turned on 'em an' all inside were murdered thatta way. Bet Ole don't know 'bout dat?! The expurt? That wuz regular carbon monoxide / car exhaust, not zyklon B. THEN the process took too dang long (joos didn't die fast enuf) an' then the truck teams gotta bit queasy (also some found the gas leaked out an' made 'em queasy, others did not wanna unload all them dead joos--whatta depressin' chore!). So the "brass" listened an' the issue became how else might they (now that the final solution wuz "in") kill tons of joos without makin' their officers ill or reticent...
ALSO "The gassing mechanism frequently malfunctioned, leading to the frequent use of gas vans to transport prisoners to execution sites, where they were shot by firing squads. Between December 1941 and June 1942, more than 97,000 victims were killed using mobile gas vans. Chelmno was among the most notorious sites where gas vans were used extensively before the transition to more systematic extermination techniques "
Also, fwiw the gas vans were already there! they hadn't been included as an option at the start (they were used on Romani! Mentally ill!)--'til they were! hey, let's use what we got! A soviet invention (go go russia)
Wull next there wuz an "in-betw" idear--usin' small sealed spaces that were stationary ta put in MORE joos an' gas 'em usin' a bunch 'a trucks... I don't recall the details but that wuz put inta effect fer a while but wasn't efficient either. ya know trial & error...
FINALLY they idear of repurposin' lice-killer zyklon B occurred ta sumbuddy--an' then trials/tests were made an' there were sum velly real death camps built. Deborah Lipstadt did not wanna have ta go inta it (which was partly a wrong move) UNTIL she wuz on trial (via Irving) an' had ta...but she did. She was pressed and did it... the evidence presented wuz purdy compellin'--
Robert Jan van Pelt, architectural historian at the University of Waterloo wuz the key presenter. I believe many of his presentations are still online...
ALso, duz Amazin' Ole deny the Execution Squads? The Line-'em-Up, Shoot 'em All, dump 'em in a pit, BURN, cover method? How so? WHY? Ve Jews were killed "on purpose" in a lotta ways an' that duz affect the death toll. Qvestion it fer sure but ta say "oh, the gas chambers only could'a baked so many cookies"--ta quote the media darlin' Nick Fuentes--so not possybull--is BULL.
I'm a full out chew an' I don't mind folks questionin'--what people don't realize is it's also HOW ya ask that gits folks a bit defensive. If ya approach a jew (many of us lost fambly in WWII) an' say--ya know it's not true, your story, there were no chambers, only I dunno-- 25K were murdered an' it's yer own fault fer bein' rotten, d'ya think that person's gonna be offended (Have we not hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions?) Most attack an' wonder WHY we react as we do. I've rarely been asked by nice folks (Elsa you're one) but most come with such BAGGAGE about how horrible liars an' thieves we all are that it's not gonna git the nicest reaction, jus' sayin'.
There are many really informed folks out there--I still hold that I ain't impressed with this one "eggs-spurt" an' feel there should be balance but 't'ain't my call of course.
I'm a performer fer heck's sake--I know stuff, I know 'nuff ta question--but I m'self ain't qualified ta proclaim expurt-tease. I kin read! But there ARE many who can do so... don't matter how they came by it... I'd like ta see the "other side" considered in such cases. Thanks fer the soap box... not sure I deserve it but I jus' cain't let sum'buddy "amazin'" spout bullshart.
Sorry 'bout the 9 minutes--hey, in 1984 only TWO were enuf ta git folks riled up 'bout Goldstein!
You know a whole lot!! An amazing lot. You are - as I've said - a more enthusiastic researcher than I am.
Yes, I am very aware of Hitler's changing intent.
I am also aware of killing and destroying here and there - like Kristalnacht. On killing here and there, and sending the ashes to the families, I really liked the movie, Swing Kids.
Do you know of the numbers? So add in just under 100,000 murdered with the mobile vans. What does it all add up to?
I don't know which numbers are 'bout right but IBM duz! They provided the reich with the calculators (proto computers!). Their headquarters used ta be in Westchester, NY, right near the city. So that'd be a good source (tho' I'm SURE they're rilly tight-lipped 'bout that...ruther it not be made public!). 100K here an' there adds up. Plus the death squads. But again, Cole sez 'bout 4.5. I'd tend ta trust him due ta hiz havin' personal reasons ta make it right--even with Mossad tryin' ta kill him! But lotta folks makin' up stuff up--sayin' no joos died even--that all the photos are jus' Christian Germans. (I dunno do folks all look velly jooish when emaciated? AFTER the war lotsa Germans were put inta POW camps awaitin' allied decisions; they didn't look the same as da joos but whadda I know?).
Anyway, I'm glad ya know 'bout the changed intent Elsa as many do not... fer years it wuz not really covered nor questioned but once it wuz--folks realized that Hitler's plan evolved over time. But most don't go thar... likely sum'a yer readers too!
I'd also trust Edwin Black--not sure how much detail he'd have 'bout eggzact numbers but this is his wheelhouse. He, Cole, an' others I listed previously--all good sources, hth!
ps some folks cite fudged census data that sez WWII even "increased" the number of chews an' none died--zero! But I've also seen data (real? just as likely? I dunno....) that sez there were about 30 million joos in the world before WWII. CLEARLY most that died didn't do so in gas chambers... Some say nearly half the chews in the whole whirled did die in general b/c most were in YourUP. Cannot cite if that figger is right, wrong, or just slightly off (at least now) but it too is worth researchin'--few seem ta wanna go from that angle. Methinks they should! Most just focus on the 6mil which seems ta have some kinda symbolism even if it's "close".... or not? I've seen too many different numbers ta know fer sure (honestly)... I tend ta think it's more than a couple million at VERY least... I wanna think Cole's 4+ is close....
Here's a book a subscriber, Mary Maxwell, recommends (and I believe it's the book a friend has just recommended):
Mary W Maxwell
Mary’s Substack
"And I strongly recommend a book by 2 Scotsmen: "Two World Wars and Hitler...Anglo-American Money, Foreign Agents and Geopolitics" (2025). Astonishing research."
I would like to know the closest possible figures. Not because it makes the horror any bigger or smaller. Just because this should be as settled as possible. As you know, when you make something taboo, it just amkes for a huge mess - some people believe it was almost no deaths, others are sure it was however many millions, most don't ask. I know both of us are for not having this a taboo subject, and getting it settled. It may be 4.5 million. One of the other comments inclucdes a new book that is (I've heard from another source also) excellent. I will try to find and make sure I send to you.
And I strongly recommend a book by 2 Scotsmen: "Two World Wars and Hitler...Anglo-American Money, Foreign Agents and Geopolitics" (2025). Astonishing research.
One consideration not mentioned here, and recently seldom in this debate, is the disappearance of the stetl, i.e. the Jewish communities which were spread throughout Eastern Europe and Russia. These seem to have been thriving, culturally rich villages and towns which had existed since time immemorial. We likely have no firm information on their collective population. They are mentioned in the stories told by, among others, by Isaac Bachevis Singer, who I do believe won a Nobel Prize. There is also the disappearance of Yiddish, the mixed-up language spoken by Jews in the stetl. Between 1940 and 1945 something dramatic happened on an enormous scale.
Another point which has been given scant attention is what exactly a "Jew" was between 1933 and 1945. In the Germany of the Third Reich, from the outset, people with Jewish ancestry were excluded from employment and otherwise disadvantaged, until they disappeared into the camps. These were often people with no knowledge of being "Jewish," no familiarity with Jewish traditions. One such was Jean Améry, a prominent post-war German intellectual.
About the stetls, I remember there was a huge wave of emigration to the US, due to pogroms against the Jews, mainy living in these stetls. As for Yiddish, as I am sure you know, there was the decision to make Hewbew the official language of Israel, so that Yiddish was wiped out in 2 generations. Young people just did not learn this vibrant living language. I remember older Jews in Montreal knowing Yiddish - not any younger ones.
Interesting topic- what happens if everything you pointed out is totally wrong and just like Covid 19, you got swallowed up in a sea of obvious lies. A discussion on this topic falls under a program of exactly why no one has died yet in the Ukraine-Russian war as for years+ no one demanded that a peace settlement be even attempted- no need as there was no war- no.civilians f
Killed- not one cob
Villanova killed in Ukraine or we would have heard about it immediately with the world condemning Russia etc - as far as the Jewish people, all the nearby Arab countries seem to be rooting for them- if they are so bad, why are they silent- the Holocaust is not a thing to be discussed nor debated- some very small minds have nothing better to do
Dear Elsa, Being a German I have been suffering nearly my whole life from a terrible guilt complex. It is a pervertion that we, the generations that have been born after the Nazi dictatorship were told over and again that we were GUILTY for being Germans. I don't know exactly why and how or who used Hitler and the Nazis to do this dirtx work. But I can say for sure that Hitler did not love the German people at all because he nearly destroyed us. First of all -and that is what Vera Sharaf says too- the Nazis killed Germans -the handicapped or children who in their eyes were born with a flaw. They killed the new-borns telling their mums the children were still-born. And like in the Corona plandemic the midwives, doctors and nurses became accomplices in this. Yes,, the Nazis also killed Germans of different political thinking. But they also put them into work camps. My uncle was one of them. He hardly survived and was deeply traumatized. When we had a family meeting, he never spoke. He was muted. And not to forget, the German Jews that were killed were also Germans. They never thought otherwise. Of course the crimes of the Germans are seen worse than genociding the Native Americans by the Americans, than genociding Indios by the Spanish, than genociding many Africans, Indians and other peoples by the British, than genociding people in Northern Africa by the French, genociding the Kongolese by the Belgians etc. Why is that so? Churchill said that they didn't fight Hitler but the German spirit of Schiller. My opinion is that the powers who are behind all this bloodshed, sorrow and dispair are not from the earth. They profit from us killing each other and hating each other. Just one more thing: the Germans (soldiers) killed 26 million Russians, not just soldiers, they killed normal people, children and all. But the Russian people today don not owe us any grudge. The worse it is that our puppet government wants to have war against Russia.
" the German Jews that were killed were also Germans. They never thought otherwise."
My gran'pa's mama was a German Jew from Bremen, my great great Uncle Allen's fam from Berlin--the former became American in 1906, the latter arrived in the US in the 1870's. Both were German first! Very proud of their heritage. The former one (the uncle) eventually an' sadly became ashamed of bein' jooish due ta antisemitism--but he never stopped bein' proud of his German heritage. Hitler didn't consider da joos there German at some point in his career.... but many TRUSTED him.... Those jews that were so compliant were too convinced they'd been "accepted" ta believe that this would happen. So the "shame" dumped upon Germans after WWII wuz also dumped upon ALL Jooish survivors of German heritage too--dumb trustin' saps, fools, so high-fallutin' thinkin' you'd be spared... oh my yes. Folks don't talk about it.
In the longer stretch, the Russians were worse ta ve jews than the Germans...(tho' Martin Luther had some speeches that'd run yer blood cold).
Most joos (I studied in Berlin) hold no grudge but it's a sensitive subject an' took time fer many ta process--an' full out denial is still touchy. Why is it so hard fer folks ta see that. I think you're comin' from a kind place of understandin' tho.
Again, nobuddy should be guilty JUST for bein' German--jooish 'er not. Or Israeli. Or French. Or Russian fer that mattah (got me Russian ancestry too). Today "ve joos" are all guilty jus' fer bein' joos. It's all wrong imho.
I like your bringing up about German Jews. I remember friends of my parents, Herr and Frau Stein - German Jews. I heard from my father many years later (I was not part of the grown-up conversations) that Herr Stein, who was a soldier on the German side in World War I, inside himself had torn loyalty. He felt very German and emotionally liked German advances. Yet he was very aware of the horrific dangerous Nazi anti-Semitism. He survived the war because his family put the money together so he got to Shanghai. There was not enough money for his parents. As he found out after the war, he was the only survivor from his family.
No time now fer the 1st long viddeyo now as I'm near-out the door an' the 2nd one won't show up (tried 3 browsers) BUT I kin say with a modicum of confidence that it's all 'bout appearances...
First, it's b'come de-rigeur ta "off" leaders in public-- Hitler did come after a few public assassinations....BUT not in Germany...'twasn't a trend then. That an' also--fwiw--many say he wuzza globalist pawn an' there's proof he did git some Tavistock coachin' / trainin' so the Brits (if troo--an' Im not implyin' Churchill wuz aware)--could'a protected their asset (Hitler) in many ways without bulletproof glass (which wuz not yet "a thing" tho' I do believe it existed...). The majority of public assassinations we Yankees are used ta--the Kennedy Bros, MLK, even Regan...all came much later. So there's that.
Now in the USA, AssAss'aNayshuns R Us! It would'a been a fool move fer Trump ta disregard hiz own safety in a very flagrant way after prior attempts (imho false but don't mattah when it comes ta the public)....
It ain't a good look ta stand behind bulletproof glass but it's worse look ta seem ta be cavalier 'bout yer safety... he picked the former... wisely...
ps started ta listen ta the Hitler viddeyo--not 'bout his "protection" or that he worked fer the Crown who'd HIRED the jooish bankers as their "bag men" but instead it's just a lotta anti-joo hate sayin' that WWII wuz fought b/c Germany wuzza challenge TO the German bankers. See hate all ya want but that don't cut it with me--German joos were uber successful BEFORE the war... successful jooish doctors, businessmen, more... the bankers (jooish an' not) backed BOTH sides not b/c Hitler wuz "too" successful but as he wuz either a patsy that went rogue on 'em OR a stooge able ta do their biddin' consciously (less likely) an' really went rogue on 'em. By all means like the fella if ya like--the viddeo (jus' started wuz all with Patton who said that the Allies fought on the wrong side an' should've supported Hitler). I always say, "you do you" an' "Ill do me"--not findin' much that I haven't heard before from the ho-hum-haters but I'll give it a few... sorry I just cain't find much merit in it--but again, imho, Hitler wuz wittin'ly or unwittin'ly an agent of The Crown (as were da bankers, jooish an' NOT)
lol ya dunno who yer talkin' to... "oy golly!" (Amy, listen ta this fella an' DO watch out fer chews, 'kay? haha)
fwit Mista Buster, Amazin' Amy IS amazin'! I'm proud ta have seen her show more'n once. She knows her enemy an' (ssssh) 'aint the joos! (Yup, there are really amazin' talents out thar---UNlike dis Ole faker. Mebbe yer a rodeo star, eh? There's room fer talents everywhar...)
There is always more to know especially if we weren't there. Following the trail backwards before the grand event lights-up so much.
We agree!
sorry if i'm hyjacking, but this song, barry mcguire is definitely worth a ponder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFZUDQ85bFU
Thank you for the song. I remember it well, had never really listened to the words.
lovely almost speaking to you in real time, you are such a lovely, positive person.
Hello Elsa I consider myself Jew, as others may consider themselves Christians, Muslims, no religion etc.. I think we the humanity continue being blinded by selfishness and hypocrisy, by jealousy, brainwashing, ignorance, unloveness (new term😂), to start the question is what is a Jew for you? Or for anyone who is discussing the matter, this is similar to say what is a Christian or a Muslim, none of the religions are homogeneous, far from that, to the point that orthodox Christians customs and views maybe near Judaism that Protestants Christians, having said that, most of us understand the dark sides of the followers of Abraham G_d as the leaders are humans and sadly religions had always a politic social interest in dominating the masses for individual gain! No religion is clean.. There are basic questions before we can engage on the ones you are putting forward... We are the result of our enviorment and our experiences, therefore any person mind is already predisposed to what they learn, suffer and live since they come to this world, most of us are ignorant of the reality of other religions at human level because we only experience consciousness in one life and therefore cannot be in two at the same time that will give us the possibility of a different view. Having said that, history says that as early as 1500 children in White Russia, will learn the Torah meaning to write and read, all children with money or not.. Judaism teaches the importance of learning and daily prayers maintain memory alive, this little thing for example is a big one in relation to what position a person may occupy in society, for many years if you were Jew you were forbidden to do many jobs, but lending money was allowed. We cannot charge interest in lending money to another Jew, but we can to a non jew. There are great Jews and nasty criminals ones, like any religion. Yet going back on who is a jew you will find that no one really knows who we are, who are our ascendents and as many time we have to run for our lives we spread all over the world, had to cover up our religion if we wanted our children to live, therefore a lot of people are not aware of their Jewish descendants... Having said that the history is told from a different perspectives to the groups of the population, there are no pure blood in any sense, the reason why the story of the hate against "Jews" understanding that a jew for someone is who has money in the bank, houses and power, sadly there are a lot of Jews that depend on their basic living from their communities, for others a Jew is a descendant of the 12 Tribes, having into account that 10 are lost, there are chances that a high number of people are from those 10 tribus, for others a Jew is the one who has an Israeli passport, this is another joke a lot of people specially from South America bought their Judaism from Rabbis that in reality do not believe in G_d to move to Israel... Elsa of course the same ones that killed Jews and no Jews are behind the story of the holocaust, wether dead numbers were inflated, this has been done from the ones who take benefit, not a normal Jew, for sure many were tortured, killed and there are too many no Jewish witness to deny it, as the fact that hundreds if not thousands of villages and cities with high Jewish population become empty, the houses, fields were taken by the governments of that time, I do believe it... I experience very light the madness of people when they need something to take their life frustration and what better that some one that you think will not be able to defend themselves!!! If we do not know who we are, after cov💉and all what has resurfaced from "governments" that suppose to protect us not their pockets, which shows countries are a fallacy, how we are waisting our time in debating themes created in purpose to promote hate and kill each other instead of focusing on helping each other? How we continue being manipulated, if the "Jews" are the guilty ones why 💉has killed and harm so many of us? Wake up stop letting to be brainwashed as has been happening for thousands of years.. Specially if you only read, hear one side of the story.. Jesus was a Jew, he spread the Torah and love among humanity, those who invented Christianity used his power and work to control the masses twisting his message.. Those who hate, who harm are not following Jesus teachings as they are not follow the Torah.. In Christians school is taught that Jesus was killed by the Jews, as if Jews have ever been a homogenous group, of course there are leaders Jews or not that should have never been in power, in Jews schools they teach Jesus as an impostor that is another lie, Jesus said he was the son of G-d as we are all his children! There was no "Christianity" back then, most of the people do not understand it was invented a few hundred years after by "Roman" leaders advised by group of people.. This can be true or not, depending how much research you have done, your own experiences, the capacity to open your heart and your mind to understand the manipulation of the humanity that starts by those slaves that accept money and power to create hate among us that we kill each other with excuses of scarcity, with brainwashing as if earth is not a common wellness, as if some have more right than others to a great experience that can be to live in harmony... Those that are bought with money, and don't dare to harm or who do not understand that we depend on each other, that want to resolve their problems harming others, are the ones who need help, the conversations the discussions should be about how to wake them up that torture, killings and abuse stops or at least is reduce.. Helping those slaves to understand what harm are they doing to themselves and the rest of us humanity can thrive.. There is a lot of to say in a text that has open my eyes to arrive to this conclusions
One wonders what the purpose of the holocaust was. One also wonders what the purpose of the war -- WWII -- was. I'm thinking that the main overarching purpose of both WWI and WWII (that you never read about in official histories) was the same: to establish Israel in Palestine. It didn't quite work after WWI, but it got close. The Ottoman Empire was greatly weakened, and the British took over Palestine. To complete the job they needed another war, and that did work. Both wars were maneuvered behind the scenes, as usual, by the Zionists. Zionism was a very big deal in the late 19th century, and the establishment of Israel post-WWII can be thought of as a successful campaign of war, intrigue, social engineering, and so on.
So what about the holocaust? Who wanted it, and why? I think we have to separate the Nazis on the one hand from the Zionists on the other. We don't know exactly what the Nazis wanted -- despite a mountain of commentary on the subject -- although it was likely some kind of combination of imprisonment, slave labor, and extermination. It's hard for anyone on the outside these days to know anything definite about all these conspiracies, especially the holocaust, since that is the one that looks to be the most protected.
Was the holocaust entirely a German/Nazi idea? That's the Party Line, to be sure, but I doubt it. We can't overlook the Zionists. What was their angle? They wanted to establish Israel in Palestine (not Uganda, forget about Uganda, that is clean out of the way). And it has been known since at least the time of Machiavelli that in order to hang on to conquered territory you have to colonize it. By that line of reasoning, from the Zionist perspective, the camps were mainly holding pens, the population of which could be drawn upon, at the conclusion of the war, to colonize Palestine/Israel. In the event the casualties were higher than might have been hoped, especially near the end of the war, due to the length of the war, logistics issues, and the Nazis getting carried away in their anti-Jewish zeal. But I doubt the six million figure is accurate; it's likely a number made up out of thin air for propaganda purposes. If they said six billion, that would have had more impact, but some wise guy could have pointed out that there weren't even six billion humans on earth at that time. If they said six, most people would just yawn and say "So what, a lot of people died in the war." What was needed was the largest number that could be successfully defended with the techniques of psychological warfare and conspiracy (most of it non-rational thinking); six million looks to be the number they came up with.
The holocaust probably wasn't unique. We recall that there were pogroms in Russia in the late 19th century (Fiddler on the Roof, anybody?). If the pogroms were a Zionist plan to route Jews to Palestine, it didn't work very well. A lot of them went to New York instead. If the Zionists reviewed this plan, which they probably did, they would have noticed that the emigrants had too many options, too much money, and too much freedom. So from this perspective the holocaust represented an improvement. At the end of the war those people, the survivors, were completely destitute. In other words a much higher proportion of them were routed to Palestine (versus the situation with the pogroms), soon to become the coveted Israel. Plots within plots, as someone has observed.
What was the the main reason for WW I and WW II? I do not believe it was setting up the state of Israel. I believe it had to do with the destruction of human rights and freedoms, and human power - the same kind of ting we are seeing these days.
Brother Nathanael Channel Videos!
Episode 57: Growing Up Jewish
December 17 2024
He tells when and how Holocaust came into existence: https://www.realjewnews.com/?p=2282
Brother Nathanael is a 100% pro-Nazi nut who sadly wuz born jooish (a shame ta the race) an' ZO hated bein' a joo so much he sez anythin' he can -- such as that "ve eat babies!"( 'specially christian ones--watch out! he sez joos'll STEAL your lovely Christian Baby an' sacrifice 'im an' EAT 'im if ya walk by a church! Cross the Street NOW! listen ta goo'ol Bro Nathanel!"--he'll tell ya ve all hate Christians an' we schpit on 'em.
Elsa here's Austrian an' afaik wuz raised Christian (ta some degree) She grew up in a jooish neib. in Montreal. I'm SURE she kin chime in an' tell y'all if she wuz schpit on or her life threatened or if she knew of leetle boys eaten by cannibalistic joos?!
Believin' him--even as a former joo--is like pickin' out a Idi Amin Dada an' sayin' "he'z the best representative showin' ya what REAL Ugandans are like!"... Oh.... when it comes ta cannibalism...
Anywoo.... if yer all livin' Brother Nathael even the white supremacists eventually diss the guy...sheesh!
:) Nope, nor "schpit on or her life threatened or if she knew of leetle boys eaten by cannibalistic joos?!" A serious answer: it was all so low-key, often even unsaid and yet felt. I believe you know what I mean.
Right, zo Bro' Nathanel is off hiz rocker an' attracts flies that wanna bathe in a soiten kinda nectar...
You were put in the oppysit situation b/c most of Canada (Montreal too) wuz not jooish!--but here, like da joos in most places, you were the odd man out so ta speak. But fer most chews in America (Canada likely too) 'twas the oppysit. The only jew in a class (or only one of few).
My awareness is that joos (unrelated ta yer own fam / nation of origin) were not always treated well in America & likely Canada too... I know my fam had seen "no joos or dogs allowed" an' couldn't buy a home in certain neibs an' tho they didn't give a hoot 'bout country clubs, that too wuz a no-no. So there was a bit of wariness that lasted a looong time about how they were treated in the US...at least 3 generations but it lessened over time... as they sawr tolerance. Many had ta change names ta do bizness....
So in yer case I believe it wuz more like..."discomfort-felt" (on all sides) due ta it bein' "weird terrytory." It's hard fer one ta trust anyone when yer own "tribe/group" has been generally treated differently. This is troo fer any outside of any group.
Fer one year I had ta be in a very waspy privit skool in an area known ta be anti-semitic. Long story but the public skools got seriously dangerous an' a friend's lil' bro got knifed, another one burned with cigarettes so gettin' outta a baaad situation put me in a "strange" one-- So I got called Christ killler in 2nd grade an chased 'round the playground 'till I fell all bloody an' got chastised by the teacher (my fault she tol'me --I brought in a menorah fer show & tell an' the teacher said if I'd kept my mouth shut "nobuddy would'a known I wuz jooish").
Now, that wuz 'before 1980...at a time when ya'd think there'd be no such doin's in America. Things changed--a later skool found me not the only one. Bein' the only one kin be velly uncomfy--likely yer situation an' I'm sorry fer that. I don't think yer schoolmates were bred ta hate ya but perhaps ta be wary...
Not sure of the time fer yerself (nevah ask a laydee her age!) but the wounds over time on all sides take time ta heal. Decades...an' then a tiny bit of sumthin' still lies in the back of the mind... fer years in our fam it wuz dormant..
So all this ta say that haters like Bro Nathanel are not good guys... Methinks if you'd been put in a skool where 25% were jooish, half christian, an' the other 25 other faiths... you would not have feel the coolness of bein' an outsider. THAT's the meltin' pot I wuz mostly raised in...good stuff. But bein' the jooish outlier in a catholic skool likely might've been worse than what you experienced.... an' yet I've always had many catholic pals an' never generalized the bad behavior of those girls ('twas an all girls school) fer catholics in general. In fact, I grew up next door ta catholic fam of 17 whose youngest wuz my best pal fer years 'til they moved away. They ran a Catholic school an' bore nothin' but affection fer "us joos"
But fer the good Bro. Nat ta say all joos hate Christians an' spit on them an' eat 'em (seriously!) ain't troo. He's likely near 80 too... an' perhaps his upbringin' wuz a bit more on the wary side but I've been round Orthodox an' never have they behaved in any mean way towards the Christians 'round 'em.
Member, many listeners ta Bro Nat. have never met a joo--so they take his word fer it. Outside of the bigger cities, even in the US many can grow up never meetin' one've us!
ps I've never met a fellow chew that grew up ta hate Christians let alone "schpit" on them...goodness. I kin say I wuz taught Hitler was a velly bad man an' ta hate the Nazis--not ta hate anybuddy else includin' Germans (3 in our own immediate fambly)... Methinks my upbringin' wuz the norm. Likely more Christians t'day hate us joos more than the oppysit... I treat folks as indiv-i-chew-alls... an' I'm sorry fer any'buddy that's been treated poorly for "who they are"
Oh just 'memberin' my hubby's fambly is half jooish (from Vienna!) half Irish...so my kids got sum Austrian in 'em too!
I have met blanket being against all Germans and Austrians. I remember, when in high school, talking one afternoon in a park with a Jewish fellow student. He said he could never take me home to meet his parents. And later, when I went out with a Jewish fellow student at university and did meet his parents, they were very nice to my face, but not to him, when alone with him. It was not because I was non-Jewish (shiksa). It was because I was Austrian.
As for blanket anti-German and anti-Austrian, that has been the norm, in my experience - and not just among Jews, but just about all Western people - including Germans and Austrians. It's part of the dynamics - the mind control - that was done to just about all of us. I remember feeling this anti-Autrian and anti-German feeling myself.Veery powerful, though I knew I had not been born during World War II, and even had parents who were against anti-Semitism.
oh Elsa, I'm so sad an' sorry you had this experience. In high school (both 've 'em!) we had German exchange students, a German teacher & German coach (soccer, tho' I didn't play that m'self!) an' never heard of any issue whatever. In college, same--one'a the most famous professors we had wuz from Germany (ancient guy!) an' he knew Thomas Mann! (Herr Heller!) an' we all wanted ta take his lectures! I m'self studied at Goethe-Inst. in Berlin & Paris an' even a little back in NYC an' never sawr what'cher sayin'... in fact in Paris I had a good Austrian friend Christa. She thought it "witzig" that she had ta speak hoch deutsch with me an' not "dialekt" from her hometown in Austria but I needed ta work on the former! So many experiences over time an' nobuddy said ta me (as a joo OR as an American) not ta socialize with anyone from Austria or Germany. This wuz in the late 70's an' 80's an' beyond.... never the bias you mentioned.
So not only did any'buddy tell me NOT ta be nice ta Germans OR Austrians OR Christians--there were never any heard words of unkindness ('bout da Nazis, yessiree--but not in general 'bout Germans, Austrians, etc)... so growin' up in a liberal kinda lefty house, this wuz not my experience
But yer story is yers an' it's the trooth ya experienced--I'm not sure what made mine so different? My hometowns (Detroit then New Yawk City). Could it be location? Generational? Mystified--but so sorry fer treatment that wuz not "American" (or I guess "Canadian" either). That's unfortunate ta say the least...an' all that in spite of yer open-minded parents.
---added thoughts...
1. In NYC we had "Klein Deutschland" downtown an' Yorkville uptown--both populated by a mix of Germans (some Austrians) both jooish an' not... so this wuz "normale"... we all got along at least in mah time an' my hubbies (native new yawker himself)
2. In jooish kulcha there is a HigherArchy of sorts--the German Joos (not regular / non-jooish Germans) off'n acted quite high 'n mighty over us E.-EuroPeons... They felt more ASS-immolated (haha indeed), more "intellectual" -- presented a host of bi-asses (false) an' thus treated all others who didn't have their petty-gree as "lesser" humans--as dummies!
Doubtful THAT wuz what'cha experienced as it's only "'tween joos" but ta this day I call my (thankfully LATE) Ma's rotten huss-bind "Der Schtepvater" as he ordered my ma around like she wuz his maid, treated our fam like "doit"...an' talked town ta us as if we were full out "dummies." Part've it's jus' that he wuzza jerk but his whole fam wuz like that... So due ta that kinda snobbery there is a diff. wariness among E.Euro joos reserved fer the German chews--not universal by any means but we git our radar up as it's really a "thang."
Ironically my great uncle (German joo from Kentucky!) wuz the "wurst" of 'em--whip smart, didn't tolerate fools at all let alone well, an' warn't too happy 'bout his jooish roots BUT his wife an' the rest of us were eggceptions ta his not likin' joos in spite've him bein' one!--in fact he'd tell us WE were the only joos he liked... (sum kinda comply-mint, eh?) An' yet...he wuzz otherwise a dear man, a funny man, an' interestin' as all git out...
All this ta say that many groups hold views less than liberal--but I don't know that da joos (again, in my experience) ta be more biased than any other groups... in fact many of 'em bleedin' heart liberals ta the point of puttin' others "less fortunate" first at their own loss... but that's mental gymnastics I'll spare ya! anywhoo. thems my thoughts fer the evenin'... our eggsperiences DO color us fer life...
I'm glad Elsa, ta provide mah thoughts onnit. I feel that it's OK to question--ain't gotta problem with that. I will say that you're quotin' me quotin' what the Amazin' Ole said sometimes misleads the reader to think it's "me" sayin' certain things... or it misses the irony.
Fer eggzample, IMHO imposin' the clot shots & green pass duz put BB in the monster catty-gory (emphasis on the last word given blood on his hands) BUT I don't believe he's worse than MANY other leaders... in fact, inspite of the blood on his hands fer that fiasco alone, I believe it wuz unmitigated ego/hubris NOT wantin' to kill the joos or destroy Israel or "run the whirled" that motivated him. I think he wanted ta be FIRST (like DJT) in protecin' "HIS" pee-pull from a "deadly virus" an' to FIX his failing rep due to the not-so-goodnik Kaplanists plaguin' 'im daily I think he felt THIS great medical move would put him in the hist'ry books. Sucker'd in by a fatal flaw faster than warp speed. In the USA Birx & Fraudski snickered. I'm sure Bourla an' others did in Israel. But...anyway....
The man reason I wanna commint here is CHANGED PURPOSE which you don't address. For MOST of the War Hitler just wanted ta de-jew Germany an' the camps did just that. Long 'fore gas chambers, they rounded 'em up an' MANY were killed en masse an' on purpose in the streets, long 'fore any single gas chamber or method wuz built OR the intent to "just kill joos" formulated (Wannsee Conference). There are a few written documents (from hiz generals) that indicate WHERE an' WHEN Hitler decided to move from "lock 'em up, make 'em work, ship 'em to Palestine"... to "just kill 'em all" (no notta mercy killin' due ta lack'a food...gah!)
We joos have the Mufti (AraRat's Uncle) ta thank fer it as he convinced Hitler NOT ta deport 'em to Palestine... Mufti said too many joos there already. So Hitler deputized 'im and promised ta finish the job in Germany (an' in YourUP) an' ta help Mufti kill the rest of 'em AFTER he'd finished the war in YourUP. (an' dats the trooth... an Edith Ann raspberry follers...)
Then Mista Amazin's figgers are baloney b/c Ole only proposes official chambers in certain camps. First, not all, not even most were ever converted inta full out death camps (tho deaths DID occur & often...) But there were THOUSANDS of CAMPS an' not just in Germany--THOUSANDS. So y'all gotta recalculate given those numbers... Then it would NOT take 200 years. This, again, is why I keep sayin' talk to David Cole... he spent YEARS tryin' ta make things right after he's spent two dumb years promotin' a $4000 film he made fer the Church of Scientology an' he regrets denyin' the chambers EVEN tho he himself questions the numbers (I believe he's at 4.5 million more 'er less)
EVEN after the shift--from wantin' ta just git ridda joos ta killin' em (an' anyone that does not acknowledge there is a shift is bein' dishonest--ya'll know EVEN VE CHEWS ALL recognize it--the "OFFICIAL STORY" from Yad Vashem recognizes it--we all KNOW round up the chews wuz not kill da joos--that came later--so even AFTER the shift...it wuz not just okay, here we invent gas chambers... it was a PROCESS an' lotsa joos were murdered in various ways as the genius figgered it all out. Don't count 'em? Yer call... I would.
Zo, re Amazin' Ole, duz the man NOT know 'bout the mobile chambers (big ol' trucks Gas vans were modified commercial trucks, typically models from German manufacturers such as Opel or Saurer. They were equipped with airtight, hermetically sealed cargo compartments where victims were placed. The exhaust pipes of these vehicles were redirected into the sealed compartments, filling them with lethal carbon monoxide gas) Thus the gas hose wuz turned on 'em an' all inside were murdered thatta way. Bet Ole don't know 'bout dat?! The expurt? That wuz regular carbon monoxide / car exhaust, not zyklon B. THEN the process took too dang long (joos didn't die fast enuf) an' then the truck teams gotta bit queasy (also some found the gas leaked out an' made 'em queasy, others did not wanna unload all them dead joos--whatta depressin' chore!). So the "brass" listened an' the issue became how else might they (now that the final solution wuz "in") kill tons of joos without makin' their officers ill or reticent...
ALSO "The gassing mechanism frequently malfunctioned, leading to the frequent use of gas vans to transport prisoners to execution sites, where they were shot by firing squads. Between December 1941 and June 1942, more than 97,000 victims were killed using mobile gas vans. Chelmno was among the most notorious sites where gas vans were used extensively before the transition to more systematic extermination techniques "
https://dirkdeklein.net/2025/02/10/the-gas-vans-of-the-holocaust-a-grim-prelude-to-industrialized-murder/
Also, fwiw the gas vans were already there! they hadn't been included as an option at the start (they were used on Romani! Mentally ill!)--'til they were! hey, let's use what we got! A soviet invention (go go russia)
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/the-horrific-nazi-gas-vans-the-mobile-gas-chambers.html
http://deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_vans.html
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/gas-vans
Wull next there wuz an "in-betw" idear--usin' small sealed spaces that were stationary ta put in MORE joos an' gas 'em usin' a bunch 'a trucks... I don't recall the details but that wuz put inta effect fer a while but wasn't efficient either. ya know trial & error...
FINALLY they idear of repurposin' lice-killer zyklon B occurred ta sumbuddy--an' then trials/tests were made an' there were sum velly real death camps built. Deborah Lipstadt did not wanna have ta go inta it (which was partly a wrong move) UNTIL she wuz on trial (via Irving) an' had ta...but she did. She was pressed and did it... the evidence presented wuz purdy compellin'--
Robert Jan van Pelt, architectural historian at the University of Waterloo wuz the key presenter. I believe many of his presentations are still online...
https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/deborah-lipstadt-the-lies-and-obfuscations-of-bish
ALso, duz Amazin' Ole deny the Execution Squads? The Line-'em-Up, Shoot 'em All, dump 'em in a pit, BURN, cover method? How so? WHY? Ve Jews were killed "on purpose" in a lotta ways an' that duz affect the death toll. Qvestion it fer sure but ta say "oh, the gas chambers only could'a baked so many cookies"--ta quote the media darlin' Nick Fuentes--so not possybull--is BULL.
I'm a full out chew an' I don't mind folks questionin'--what people don't realize is it's also HOW ya ask that gits folks a bit defensive. If ya approach a jew (many of us lost fambly in WWII) an' say--ya know it's not true, your story, there were no chambers, only I dunno-- 25K were murdered an' it's yer own fault fer bein' rotten, d'ya think that person's gonna be offended (Have we not hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions?) Most attack an' wonder WHY we react as we do. I've rarely been asked by nice folks (Elsa you're one) but most come with such BAGGAGE about how horrible liars an' thieves we all are that it's not gonna git the nicest reaction, jus' sayin'.
There are many really informed folks out there--I still hold that I ain't impressed with this one "eggs-spurt" an' feel there should be balance but 't'ain't my call of course.
I'm a performer fer heck's sake--I know stuff, I know 'nuff ta question--but I m'self ain't qualified ta proclaim expurt-tease. I kin read! But there ARE many who can do so... don't matter how they came by it... I'd like ta see the "other side" considered in such cases. Thanks fer the soap box... not sure I deserve it but I jus' cain't let sum'buddy "amazin'" spout bullshart.
Sorry 'bout the 9 minutes--hey, in 1984 only TWO were enuf ta git folks riled up 'bout Goldstein!
You know a whole lot!! An amazing lot. You are - as I've said - a more enthusiastic researcher than I am.
Yes, I am very aware of Hitler's changing intent.
I am also aware of killing and destroying here and there - like Kristalnacht. On killing here and there, and sending the ashes to the families, I really liked the movie, Swing Kids.
Do you know of the numbers? So add in just under 100,000 murdered with the mobile vans. What does it all add up to?
I don't know which numbers are 'bout right but IBM duz! They provided the reich with the calculators (proto computers!). Their headquarters used ta be in Westchester, NY, right near the city. So that'd be a good source (tho' I'm SURE they're rilly tight-lipped 'bout that...ruther it not be made public!). 100K here an' there adds up. Plus the death squads. But again, Cole sez 'bout 4.5. I'd tend ta trust him due ta hiz havin' personal reasons ta make it right--even with Mossad tryin' ta kill him! But lotta folks makin' up stuff up--sayin' no joos died even--that all the photos are jus' Christian Germans. (I dunno do folks all look velly jooish when emaciated? AFTER the war lotsa Germans were put inta POW camps awaitin' allied decisions; they didn't look the same as da joos but whadda I know?).
Anyway, I'm glad ya know 'bout the changed intent Elsa as many do not... fer years it wuz not really covered nor questioned but once it wuz--folks realized that Hitler's plan evolved over time. But most don't go thar... likely sum'a yer readers too!
I'd also trust Edwin Black--not sure how much detail he'd have 'bout eggzact numbers but this is his wheelhouse. He, Cole, an' others I listed previously--all good sources, hth!
ps some folks cite fudged census data that sez WWII even "increased" the number of chews an' none died--zero! But I've also seen data (real? just as likely? I dunno....) that sez there were about 30 million joos in the world before WWII. CLEARLY most that died didn't do so in gas chambers... Some say nearly half the chews in the whole whirled did die in general b/c most were in YourUP. Cannot cite if that figger is right, wrong, or just slightly off (at least now) but it too is worth researchin'--few seem ta wanna go from that angle. Methinks they should! Most just focus on the 6mil which seems ta have some kinda symbolism even if it's "close".... or not? I've seen too many different numbers ta know fer sure (honestly)... I tend ta think it's more than a couple million at VERY least... I wanna think Cole's 4+ is close....
Here's a book a subscriber, Mary Maxwell, recommends (and I believe it's the book a friend has just recommended):
Mary W Maxwell
Mary’s Substack
"And I strongly recommend a book by 2 Scotsmen: "Two World Wars and Hitler...Anglo-American Money, Foreign Agents and Geopolitics" (2025). Astonishing research."
I would like to know the closest possible figures. Not because it makes the horror any bigger or smaller. Just because this should be as settled as possible. As you know, when you make something taboo, it just amkes for a huge mess - some people believe it was almost no deaths, others are sure it was however many millions, most don't ask. I know both of us are for not having this a taboo subject, and getting it settled. It may be 4.5 million. One of the other comments inclucdes a new book that is (I've heard from another source also) excellent. I will try to find and make sure I send to you.
As Israel Finkelstein said about the Holohoax:"There is no business like Shoa business.
The correct term is:"There is no business like Shoah business."
Dear Elsa, around the time you were posting your article, I was posting a related one at my Substack. Hope you like it:
https://maxwellm.substack.com/p/i-am-a-card-carrying-anti-antisemite/
Loved it!!! Just read it and commented.
And I strongly recommend a book by 2 Scotsmen: "Two World Wars and Hitler...Anglo-American Money, Foreign Agents and Geopolitics" (2025). Astonishing research.
I have noted this. I believe it's a book a friend has also recommended.
One consideration not mentioned here, and recently seldom in this debate, is the disappearance of the stetl, i.e. the Jewish communities which were spread throughout Eastern Europe and Russia. These seem to have been thriving, culturally rich villages and towns which had existed since time immemorial. We likely have no firm information on their collective population. They are mentioned in the stories told by, among others, by Isaac Bachevis Singer, who I do believe won a Nobel Prize. There is also the disappearance of Yiddish, the mixed-up language spoken by Jews in the stetl. Between 1940 and 1945 something dramatic happened on an enormous scale.
Another point which has been given scant attention is what exactly a "Jew" was between 1933 and 1945. In the Germany of the Third Reich, from the outset, people with Jewish ancestry were excluded from employment and otherwise disadvantaged, until they disappeared into the camps. These were often people with no knowledge of being "Jewish," no familiarity with Jewish traditions. One such was Jean Améry, a prominent post-war German intellectual.
About the stetls, I remember there was a huge wave of emigration to the US, due to pogroms against the Jews, mainy living in these stetls. As for Yiddish, as I am sure you know, there was the decision to make Hewbew the official language of Israel, so that Yiddish was wiped out in 2 generations. Young people just did not learn this vibrant living language. I remember older Jews in Montreal knowing Yiddish - not any younger ones.
Interesting topic- what happens if everything you pointed out is totally wrong and just like Covid 19, you got swallowed up in a sea of obvious lies. A discussion on this topic falls under a program of exactly why no one has died yet in the Ukraine-Russian war as for years+ no one demanded that a peace settlement be even attempted- no need as there was no war- no.civilians f
Killed- not one cob
Villanova killed in Ukraine or we would have heard about it immediately with the world condemning Russia etc - as far as the Jewish people, all the nearby Arab countries seem to be rooting for them- if they are so bad, why are they silent- the Holocaust is not a thing to be discussed nor debated- some very small minds have nothing better to do
Dear Elsa, Being a German I have been suffering nearly my whole life from a terrible guilt complex. It is a pervertion that we, the generations that have been born after the Nazi dictatorship were told over and again that we were GUILTY for being Germans. I don't know exactly why and how or who used Hitler and the Nazis to do this dirtx work. But I can say for sure that Hitler did not love the German people at all because he nearly destroyed us. First of all -and that is what Vera Sharaf says too- the Nazis killed Germans -the handicapped or children who in their eyes were born with a flaw. They killed the new-borns telling their mums the children were still-born. And like in the Corona plandemic the midwives, doctors and nurses became accomplices in this. Yes,, the Nazis also killed Germans of different political thinking. But they also put them into work camps. My uncle was one of them. He hardly survived and was deeply traumatized. When we had a family meeting, he never spoke. He was muted. And not to forget, the German Jews that were killed were also Germans. They never thought otherwise. Of course the crimes of the Germans are seen worse than genociding the Native Americans by the Americans, than genociding Indios by the Spanish, than genociding many Africans, Indians and other peoples by the British, than genociding people in Northern Africa by the French, genociding the Kongolese by the Belgians etc. Why is that so? Churchill said that they didn't fight Hitler but the German spirit of Schiller. My opinion is that the powers who are behind all this bloodshed, sorrow and dispair are not from the earth. They profit from us killing each other and hating each other. Just one more thing: the Germans (soldiers) killed 26 million Russians, not just soldiers, they killed normal people, children and all. But the Russian people today don not owe us any grudge. The worse it is that our puppet government wants to have war against Russia.
THANK YOU fer statin' this trooth:
" the German Jews that were killed were also Germans. They never thought otherwise."
My gran'pa's mama was a German Jew from Bremen, my great great Uncle Allen's fam from Berlin--the former became American in 1906, the latter arrived in the US in the 1870's. Both were German first! Very proud of their heritage. The former one (the uncle) eventually an' sadly became ashamed of bein' jooish due ta antisemitism--but he never stopped bein' proud of his German heritage. Hitler didn't consider da joos there German at some point in his career.... but many TRUSTED him.... Those jews that were so compliant were too convinced they'd been "accepted" ta believe that this would happen. So the "shame" dumped upon Germans after WWII wuz also dumped upon ALL Jooish survivors of German heritage too--dumb trustin' saps, fools, so high-fallutin' thinkin' you'd be spared... oh my yes. Folks don't talk about it.
In the longer stretch, the Russians were worse ta ve jews than the Germans...(tho' Martin Luther had some speeches that'd run yer blood cold).
Most joos (I studied in Berlin) hold no grudge but it's a sensitive subject an' took time fer many ta process--an' full out denial is still touchy. Why is it so hard fer folks ta see that. I think you're comin' from a kind place of understandin' tho.
Again, nobuddy should be guilty JUST for bein' German--jooish 'er not. Or Israeli. Or French. Or Russian fer that mattah (got me Russian ancestry too). Today "ve joos" are all guilty jus' fer bein' joos. It's all wrong imho.
I like your bringing up about German Jews. I remember friends of my parents, Herr and Frau Stein - German Jews. I heard from my father many years later (I was not part of the grown-up conversations) that Herr Stein, who was a soldier on the German side in World War I, inside himself had torn loyalty. He felt very German and emotionally liked German advances. Yet he was very aware of the horrific dangerous Nazi anti-Semitism. He survived the war because his family put the money together so he got to Shanghai. There was not enough money for his parents. As he found out after the war, he was the only survivor from his family.
Why did Hitler need no protection?
https://rumble.com/v5urvbq--the-hitler-test-2024.html
Why is Trump sitting in an transparent enclosure, even when a lot or warriors and materiel is present.
https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c2lkl9pe9kjo
No time now fer the 1st long viddeyo now as I'm near-out the door an' the 2nd one won't show up (tried 3 browsers) BUT I kin say with a modicum of confidence that it's all 'bout appearances...
First, it's b'come de-rigeur ta "off" leaders in public-- Hitler did come after a few public assassinations....BUT not in Germany...'twasn't a trend then. That an' also--fwiw--many say he wuzza globalist pawn an' there's proof he did git some Tavistock coachin' / trainin' so the Brits (if troo--an' Im not implyin' Churchill wuz aware)--could'a protected their asset (Hitler) in many ways without bulletproof glass (which wuz not yet "a thing" tho' I do believe it existed...). The majority of public assassinations we Yankees are used ta--the Kennedy Bros, MLK, even Regan...all came much later. So there's that.
Now in the USA, AssAss'aNayshuns R Us! It would'a been a fool move fer Trump ta disregard hiz own safety in a very flagrant way after prior attempts (imho false but don't mattah when it comes ta the public)....
It ain't a good look ta stand behind bulletproof glass but it's worse look ta seem ta be cavalier 'bout yer safety... he picked the former... wisely...
ps started ta listen ta the Hitler viddeyo--not 'bout his "protection" or that he worked fer the Crown who'd HIRED the jooish bankers as their "bag men" but instead it's just a lotta anti-joo hate sayin' that WWII wuz fought b/c Germany wuzza challenge TO the German bankers. See hate all ya want but that don't cut it with me--German joos were uber successful BEFORE the war... successful jooish doctors, businessmen, more... the bankers (jooish an' not) backed BOTH sides not b/c Hitler wuz "too" successful but as he wuz either a patsy that went rogue on 'em OR a stooge able ta do their biddin' consciously (less likely) an' really went rogue on 'em. By all means like the fella if ya like--the viddeo (jus' started wuz all with Patton who said that the Allies fought on the wrong side an' should've supported Hitler). I always say, "you do you" an' "Ill do me"--not findin' much that I haven't heard before from the ho-hum-haters but I'll give it a few... sorry I just cain't find much merit in it--but again, imho, Hitler wuz wittin'ly or unwittin'ly an agent of The Crown (as were da bankers, jooish an' NOT)
The dynamics of what / who was behind it all - this I find most interesting. You're saying the Crown, if I understand right.
Anyhow, whoever/whatever, they're doing their damnest now.
Fully appreciate the thoughtful and reasoned examination of a very touchy subject!
What will be done to you, if you do not know your enemy?
lol ya dunno who yer talkin' to... "oy golly!" (Amy, listen ta this fella an' DO watch out fer chews, 'kay? haha)
fwit Mista Buster, Amazin' Amy IS amazin'! I'm proud ta have seen her show more'n once. She knows her enemy an' (ssssh) 'aint the joos! (Yup, there are really amazin' talents out thar---UNlike dis Ole faker. Mebbe yer a rodeo star, eh? There's room fer talents everywhar...)