On July 17, 2024, the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, passed legislation opposing a Palestinian state. Period. In light of the heinous attack of October 7, it’s understandable that Israel would not want to discuss a 2 state solution now. The legislation termed a Palestinian state as an “existential threat”. Support for a one state solution, however, leaves no room for a solution to the Palestinian/Israel conflict.
Yes, that is for sure. Netanyahu is scheduled to meet in Washington, DC today concerning Israel/Palestinian relations. It sounds like Israel has sent a loud and clear message ahead of his visit.
on Gaza/Palestine. Like you Elsa, I’m learning a lot and clarifying some of my previously held beliefs because of new information that I didn’t have before. I’ve traditionally always endorsed Israel seeing them as our ally in the Middle East.
The past 5 years or so I’ve really been questioning a lot of the narratives the US has put forth, in particular 911. I have no doubt that our ally in the Middle East has done similar things. It’s interesting that many here were calling it Israel’s 911. I’m inclined to say what links both “911s” is the ability of both governments to do terrible things to its own citizens. I find it difficult to believe that Israel accidentally left their border exposed. I’m inclined to believe they may have planned the entire attack for the purpose of finally being able to achieve their long desired goal of obliterating the Palestinians. Israel throughout history has always played the innocent victim. They have led the world to believe they embarked upon a noble goal of making a Jewish homeland from a barren, unoccupied land when in reality that could not be further from the truth. In the late 19th century and the first half of the 20th century , the area was a thriving home for the Palestinians. They had their own villages, gardens, homes, jobs and way of life. They lived peaceably with their Jewish and Christian neighbors who were the minority. Zionism never intended anything good for the Palestinian people. Once the globalist Rothschild family had coerced Britain into signing the Balfour Declaration of 1917 declaring Palestine a home for not just Jews but the Jewish race, the fate of the Palestinians was sealed. The Zionist movement now had the backing of one of the world’s superpowers who could put down any Palestinian protests and uprisings. The Rothschilds had been encouraging settlement of Palestine even well before the Balfour Declaration. The Rothschilds had been buying up some of the land during the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire fighting on the side of Germany was broken up after Germany was defeated in World War I. Britain now had the mandate on Palestine. Israel has whitewashed the destruction of 400-500 Palestinian villages, the massacre of thousands of Palestinians and the takeover of 75% of the land all in just one year between 1948 and 1949 to make way for their new country. If I had lived in Palestine during this time, I don’t think I would have had a very favorable view of the settlers. In fact, I dare say I probably would have hated them. Has Israel ever acknowledged the suffering they caused the Palestinians in the years their Jewish state was founded or the suffering they continue to cause? Of course countries all over the world have caused egregious suffering to others. My Pastor used to say in things like this, “Whoever has the power, tends to abuse it”. I couldn’t agree more. Like you Elsa, I don’t wish Israel out of existence or the US or Canada or Australia. I wouldn’t give a dime for Hamas. It seems like they’ve hijacked what was once a seemingly peaceful people. We’ve talked about the 2 state solution for over 100 years now and it doesn’t seem like it’s working. Israel always says that they’ve offered at least 5 times but in my opinion, they don’t want a 2 state solution anymore than the Palestinians.
Regarding your last comment , my evaluation is very different.
YOUR COMMENT: We’ve talked about the 2 state solution for over 100 years now and it doesn’t seem like it’s working. Israel always says that they’ve offered at least 5 times but in my opinion, they don’t want a 2 state solution anymore than the Palestinians.
MY EVALUATION: Israel accepted the 5 proposals (which were not from Israel, but Israel accepted the proposals). Gaza (Hamas, whatever) REFUSED EACH AND EVERY PROPOSAL. It is very important to acknowledge this. The evidence clearly shows that Israel was willing to have a 2-state solution, but that Hamas (Gaza) was not. You have completely misrepresented reality, twisted it to its opposite. I believe you would do well to look at the Hamas charter which is about the complete eradication of Israel. IMPORTANT THAT YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS AND TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT.
Well that is fair enough. I was always under the impression that the 5 proposals came from Israel so that is a clarification. Is the Hamas Charter on one of the links here? If so I will take a look at it. I have no affection for Hamas whatsoever or any other terrorist organization.
The proposals definitely did not come from Israel - but in each cse, Israel said yes, and Hamas (Gaza, etc) said no. Very important. For the charter, I don't have a link, but it is around - and in it is wiping out. Israel You know the chant: from the river to the sea . . . That links to getting rid of Israel 100%.
I see in 2017, Hamas revised their charter of 1988. They now say their struggle is against the Zionist Project which is the Zionist
Movement that confiscated their land and not the Jews or their religion. I’m stating what they’re stating. They acknowledge that all of the land belongs to the Palestinians from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and north and south. Their goal is to eventually take their land back. I can’t see anywhere although I didn’t read the entire document, just skimmed it, what they would do with Israel. Maybe they would like to move Israel to the Sinai Peninsula as it is purported by a leaked Israeli document, Israel would like to do with them. I don’t trust Hamas, but I also don’t completely trust the Israeli government.
Good luck! I often wonder when a situation or issue becomes overly complex to the point that no one understands it. Normally, that complexity is intentional and meant to keep the problem unsolveable. I don't think there is a good solution given the hate that exists. I hope I'm wrong and you learn more that you can share to help lift this veil which hangs over Israel/Gaza.
Right now, the Istaeli government officials have been saying unbelievable things about Palestinians, and these things have been recorded in court. Do you accept phrases like " mow the-grass" against human beings? White phosphorus weapons used by Israelis? I 2as active with Jewish Voice for peace in the US, and I receive news feeds from Mondeweiss? The testimonies of persons dissed as self-hating mean something to me. Does each legislator have s Palestinian minder? How can the imbalance of power be so overlooked?
You have received many comments and links. I do not have evidence that you have taken in any of it. Nor do I have evidence that you've looked at anything, like the videos from the "Son of Hamas," whose father was a major Hamas figure.
I very much appreciate the wonderful work you are doing for truth and justice (Reiner Füllmich, Ed Wackerman, and other people and causes). I also appreciate and respect your position in the Israel/Gaza situation and value your “respectful discussion” approach regarding this topic.
In this very interesting post, you mention that readers had sent you links. I have a few links to send as well.
A couple of these feature Mosab Hassan Yousef [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef ]; perhaps you’re familiar with him. I find what he says to be exceptionally informative. The third link is to a video of an interview by Canadian independent journalist Laura-Lynn Tyler-Thompson with someone who has profound knowledge of the history of Israel and Palestine, as well as the ability to share that information in a clear and understandable way.
You are no doubt inundated with links already, but I hope you might be able to put these on your “to-watch” list, if you have not already seen them:
Laura-Lynn Tyler-Thompson with Pastor Georges Antonios: The true history of Palestine and Israel:
Thank you for the links. Like you, I very much appreciate the "Son of Hamas." And I look forward to lthe interview done by Laura-Lynn Tyler-Thompson. I still have huge amounts to learn.
a hot topic indeed Elsa, an' blessin's for statin' yer beliefs which certainly ta many is goin' "against the grain." I'm with ya 100%--
Like MOST countries -- from their very inception-- Israel also has some dubious funkiness under the hood--the USA too an' most others. What "the people" knew was not what the folks at the table knew. But I'd say Israel is now held to a different standard... in some ways (like with the death jabs) they themselfs had no standards! But there is more to any country than some lousy leaders an' lousy laws--which (mostly) can be UNdone. Our supreme court (supreme bein' kinda ironic now) has gestured in that direction--Israel needs a lotta the same fixin'. BUT nevertheless... I am for it existin' too!
"Zionists" are not one unified body--there are the equivalent of "Rhinos" among'em and ALSO there are at least 3 kinds of zionism---the current "political" in-TARnation has little to do with chews just wantin' a home... philosophical zionism--the only one most joos knew about wherever they are on the political or religious spectrum. Sure, there is religious zionism too. But like I said, wantin' a home (in a place that has significant meaning an' jewish history EVEN for the "secular" joos--I'll git ta that) is neither super political nor super religious since it was never thought of for "only" the Orthodox (in fact they played only a small role at first)... So. There's. That.
Many points ta "argue" around this issue but I'll state 3 off the bat that others git wrong:
1. jews are jews an' don't have to be super religious to "count" as joos (ask Hitler--wuther he's still a villain or yer hero as I know his reputation has been salvaged recently--) He wanted ta root out EVERY joo--religious or not. OH ask Stalin or anyone in USSR--even in secular USSR where joos were not to be discriminated against--they were--most've 'em had no idea of synagogue or temple but they "felt" discrimination when they got demoted or discovered the kosher ceiling (professorships out of reach or tenure, etc) or got the rotten apartments, etc. So wuther ya'll think this was a GREAT idea or a lousy one--the reason most "refuseniks" came over to the US & Canada from USSR was b/c they were discriminated against for bein' joos--not b/c they were religious as most were not (I knew many personally an' kin vouch for this)... So please stop sayin' as outsiders that you git ta say who is/ain't a joo.
I'll also start with sayin' that most don't understand that all us "chews" are TORAH chews -- it's not like ya pick Oh I'm a torah jew, I'm a talmud jew, I'm a kabbalah jew. Not matter what branch--even Reform, even Revisionist, Humanistic etc....
shucks, just tryin' to explain to folks that look in from the outside an' don't even try to understand... never thought I'd have to EVER talk 'bout this stuff but I cannot be silent.... I feel I gotta at least TRY to show what they're missin'.... I'm a mite (!) long-winded but folks got used ta tweets an' short bytes an' miss that this is all complex stuff!
thx! okay--I mebbe quite the prolix one, but here's the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood hot off the press tellin' the world succinctly--in English no less--that after they take Israel an' kill the joos they're gonna RULE THE WORLD -- in under 3 minutes he sez it all...
You compute. I compute. On campus, where learning "should" be vital, there is a marked absence of computing skills in evidence. Too bad, or this world would be very different.
Sigh. I didn't see the age of "not computin'" bein' built--it clearly happened when I wasn't lookin' (like from 2000-2020!)--we homeschooled (my eldest is a young adult now, my teen near-done with "homeschool high school") -- so I blithely assumed things were as they were!
So AGREE! learnin' was vital an' FUN! an' everyone could argue their "pernt" an' it was a smorgasbord of the best food ever--the profs were SO inta their specialties (like 17th C french lit--they had it covered!)-- that it was like drinkin' from the very font of knowledge--likely ya had the same experience.
Couldn't stop eatin' from that "help yerself" table -- I'd still be in college if it was what it "wuz" --now they're too bizzy on camp-puss bein' "warriors" an' bein' grossly uninformed 'bout the "causes" they support. We're still learnin' (college in the mind is life-long) but these kids are unlearnin' common sense ;-)
Meantimes this is an interestin' take from a velly smart lady from UK:
I'm sorta non-interventionist--not for "our" fighting the wars of others--but that said I don't really want to live under the Iranian Caliphate either! I've written I'm no fan of BBGun (his rhetoric, the sellin' out of Israel to Big Pharma) BUT this gave me pause... the analogy of givin' lip service to helpin' Israel while chainin' one hand.... not a long read...
MOST are "only" torah chews but the egg-heads (men who study all day / haredi in Israel, ultra Orthodox here in the US fer example) STUDY talmud.... they are not "talmudic jews" they are talmudic scholars. Talmud is not a type of judaism... it's a legal encyclopaedia of opinions! (to be argued--enthusiastically!)-- want examples? I listed a modern podcast below...
Meanwhile the talmudic scholars might have family members that know little of talmud--it's not a "faith" is a study course! (lifelong for many) Most women traditionally did not know of talmud as they were not allowed to study it.
I state that jews-are-jews apart from those who are secular ta the point of not wantin' anythin' ta do with their heritage/faith --those who have abandoned it (some have done this famously and are cherry picked to speak out against the jews...sigh) But for the rest've us....
What most outsiders not raised in this faith don't understand is that MOST fully secular jewish "atheists" still identify as joos AND most-not-all -- if they grow up goin' to temple, learnin' about judaism etc--STILL practice many torah tenets AND celebrate the holidays AND yes, even as atheists honor the rituals an' even "do jewish stuff." This is totally different from what many "think" an' use to "write off" Israel as a bunch'a atheists who "are not even jewish." Not true...
To wit, 10/7 was Simcha Torah (celebration of the torah) an' even the Nova fest was a jooish fest celebratin' the Simcha (joy)... even tho' all were welcome and to some it wuz just some big party. Jus' sayin'...
Also, I cannot list on one piece of lined paper the so-called fully secular jews that said kaddish for dead parents or gran'parents or gathered for passover yearly or took off work on Yom Kippur or keep many of the traditions of their choosing (I know one that keeps sabbath because "it's good for the kids" yet hasn't set foot in a temple for decades)--there are more varieties of "jooish" as ice cream but the ten commandments and other traditions still make us "one" faith--full of folks arguin'--but to argue is to be a joo! Y'all may not now there are even beautiful books of prayers an' blessin's for SECULAR joos:
"The Book of Blessings by Marcial Falk" is one've 'me AND and and and... the entire world of "Humanistic Judaism" (partly my own) is a whole branch of the faith with temples an' traditions and everything ALL for so-called atheistic or agnostic or secular joos--for those who embrace the religion but not the traditionally taught "god"... even if they believe we DO have a divine creator... so there's that...
This stuff wouldn't exist (here and in "oh israel") were there not a need for it an' tho' there are those very frum (religious) Orthodox who would dismiss all the rest of us as "not countin'" as joos because we don't strictly keep the faith "their way"--MOST accept the wide variety of joos on the planet. period. (I've spent quality time with both Orthodox an' some ultras...Billyburg, Borough Park--an' I never got treated badly though they understood I was not so "frum" / strict....)
Sooooo sayin' that all joos ain't joos 'cept the Orthodox ('specially when referrin' to Israel) is literally outsiders imposin' a judgment that jews don't impose on "their own." B/c it makes sense to them because that's how their faith works...or non-faith works...whateveah--but definin' others accordin' to "your" experience does not always work
Now is is true that there are rotten jews that do not keep the 10 or honor torah an' still call themselfs "joos?" Sure! Epstein, Maxwells, an' others they rub elbows with is a start--oh an Larry the Fink... But then regular folks go an' say joos-r-bad an' here are examples provin' it! Now if ya gotta rotten Catholic priest or a rotten Presbyterian or Mormon (I'll spare ya names but it's not only joos that have their crooks an' baddies)--does that tar all in their faith? No. Nobuddy sez "Catholics are rotten" if some priests are pedos--they say "there are issues in the Church." I'll say BBGun is rotten but he does not make all joos or even all Israelis rotten too. SO I do not git it...
The rotten Rothschilds are a case in point. They are no more rotten than the non-jooish Rockerfellers--who even built a giant CHURCH!---but the Rothschilds mostly disdain joos an' renounce their heritage. Sure call'em joos if ya like, they have decryed bein' jooish for over 100 years (they have intermarried lots too) an' said in interviews for decades that they don't practice the faith--an' many've us know their connection with the state of Israel was a bizness deal for the Crown (their British "masters" an' no they don't rule the world but go ahead, think what'cha like).... but folks insist these not-really-joos represent all joos (rich, corrupt, high up) which is baloney. So are they joos? Sure, per Hitler they would be -- but they are not more representative of the faith / tribe / culcha' than con man Al Sharpton represents all blacks.
Anywho this is all ta say that outsiders tellin' joos "who they are" is kinda crazy an' also wrong when they use this argue-mint to say joos ain't joos so they have no right to Israel... JOOS is JOOS.
Also "chewish atheists" are not fully stripped of their jewish identities (as outsiders here an' elsewhar on the innertubes) assume-- including part of their identity which IS connected with the faith. So it's not just "oh we eat bagles an' like Seinfeld"--no no no--
TABLET (a good source for all things jooish -- many that contrast & contradict each other!) -- covered this odd fact 'bout joos:
So first, folks should stop sayin' Joos ain't Joos "BY THEIR STANDARDS" (also if needed I kin show 12+ genetic studies that disprove the whole malarkey Khazarian myth). Who are "you" from the outside ta tell joos if they are / ain't jooish? Nobuddy walks up to others (regardless of their faith) in this the 21st c an' sez "you ain't black" or "you ain't Italian" or "you ain't Protestant" an' yet everyone sez jews ain't joos. (We do know who we are ... oy)
As fer the genetics issue raised, Israel was to be a safe haven-state for joos. What it does is bypass regular citizenship processes if you show yer a joo first. They thought it was a good idear. You may disagree? Fine, I don't agree with all policies of every country for citizenship either. Some countries'll quarantine yer dog for MONTHS if you travel with them--I find that horrific. But I don't say a country is not legit because it has a sucky policy. Now many of us chews have proof of our chewishness--boat records, religious documents (katuba for marriages) etc.... and ONLY those who do not (mind ya, I have no plans to move to Israel unless they start roundin' us up in the USA...) need ta prove they "are." It's not just by DNA--I think you kin talk about your upbringin' an' if you know the stories, songs, whatever--you pass the interview. It is ONLY those who have no proof whatever that they're joos that need to take the DNA test IF they want instant citizenship... I.e. IF they wanna make the CHOICE to move to Israel. Which purdy much sez the DNA thing IsReal (yes it is, even fer us Ashkenazis who are no, not nazis) But mind ya, those who have converted would not have to show any DNA... eg. Sammy Davis Jr. Debbie Reynolds Elizabeth Taylor ... OK? They too get instant "in."
Conversion is not easy, it's a purdy lengthy process--so it assures folks don't just walk in like our current situation in the USA--an' oh the irony--folks are startin' to "not like it" that MyGrunts git free green cards (our ancestors did not) but they blame Israel for havin' criteria?...
By whose dick-tat or "law" can othersides state, "OH you do not git ta create a country for one people b/c we say so!"? Really, is there a rule by which a country must be formed? Genes NOT ok, heritage NOT ok.... I fail ta see that rule book. Ghenghis Kahn & Alexander the Great didn't dig up such rule books... nor should you-all. (An' yes, Britain did not have "ownership" of the territory they handed over but they said they did an' acted like it...it's all very complicated)
So when folks say Israelis are all secular an' that makes them not joos, it's not really true--a secular jew who doesn't fully claim another faith may still even be.. a jew. To wit, Andrew Claven... who could not keep silent when a certain situation arose. EVEN as a Christian pundit (he was born a chew...). So you see... it's complicated....
2. Everyone misunderstands both Talmud an' Kabblah.
First, Talmud is a book of legal an' ethical opinions and arguments and nobody FOLLOWS it. YES there are shocking things in in, many far more shocking via MIS-Translation. So nu? The Christian Bible has passages about cannibalism, prostitution, an' murder. Should we say all Christians that honor the bible are sickos? Of COURSE not.
First, long ago in ancient times it was free-for-all, no laws. In the old testament (the jewish bible) first five books we see God/G_d tryin' ta make laws to stop folks from doin' stuff like killin' each other an' stealin' an' worshipping "idols" and other not good stuff (stealin' / rapin' ladies). Wuther ya take this literally or more as a set of instructional allegories, etc. the point is, those first books WERE a beginning... to create rules, laws, where none existed before--but they were not enough. THINGS have CHANGED since that time. Many things not even imagined!
Hence...Talmud tried to further formulate laws by havin' the often totally polar opposite arguments put in there of "wisemen"--rabbis, scholars, etc. EVEN today they are argued but many are devils advocate arguments... (i.e. for debate by the talmud scholars)...not for "real"... speculative b/c impossible under Torah which always comes first.
Also the 10 Commandments are written in STONE (ha ha--couldn't resist...) so, we know "thou shall not kill" is non-negociable. OK so in Talmud you might see arguments about killin' someone for this or that reason--debate in the topic--that doesn't "trump" the 10--it's "in theory"
BUT if ya wanna see what Talmud IS about LOOK at the podcasts below.
(Fyi, Talmud is not about rapin' babies... that one semi-mistranslated argument that's bandied about the innertubes "as if" it was jewish law--was not sayin' it's law--it was sayin' "IF this happens IS the child a virgin or not?"--in theory--an' they argued it out... NOT A LAW or a rule condoning a condemned practice (fergawds sake--folks do REALLY wanna believe joos are evil incarnate don't they?) --Do you see chews all over rapin' babies? (there are horrific crimes against children by members of all faiths but this is NOT woven into the faith as bein' ok--ever). I ask, must you hide your kids from chews wherever they lurk? (duck duck it's Jackie Mason--a rabbi no less! hide yer daughters!...er, really?)
3. last but not least... (among many issues) CHOSEN means DESIGNATED not SUPERIOR...
Joos have been in PR for a long time promotin' OTHERS' products / services but they do turrible PR for themselves in not explainin' that bein' "chosen" does not mean they are better, faster, superior or any such malarkey. Chosen means picked out for a task--teacher (God) sez, I pick/choose you bunch'a kids to hand out the math homework, I pick/choose you bunch of kids standing near me to help carry these books to the kindergarten class).
Joos were chosen as test subjects because they happened to be a good sized test group that sort'a hung together and God (in the bible) was already workin' with 'em (sometimes helping, guiding, protecting, etc). So his idea was to make up some very sound commandments to START the people on a road to being moral, good creatures doin' "Him" (Her?) justice. YOU will be the group to follow my new rules and you are chosen to set an example to others for follerin' 'em. You can and likely will mess up along the way and I'll have to figger out how to help you--but you'll try ta be good students and set an example--you will not convert others, you'll just show what it's like bein' righteous (a mensch!) as best you can. THAT is what chosen means. Bein' the selected guinea pigs for God to figger out how to get us humans to behave better. Picked because joos were a group together (not yet jooish but descended from Abraham) an' this group of famblies seemed like great test subjects.
So... last lesson:
Chosen does not mean better, superior, smarter, greater--it means designated for a job as test subjects--"God" (our creator, the divine spirt...) is in ALL of us and loves all people... Bad PR is that chosen is not explained.
Are there joos with swulled heads? Sure. Are there Christians with swulled heads? Divas of all faiths? Pompous Kings an others who have ego issues? YES. But most joos just live their lives as ordinary folks an' do NOT think they are chosen for much beyond an IRS audit!
'nuff said--I'm sure it will git some heat--I'll likely not argue much back as everyone has a right to their "onions" but I try ta redeem us from generalizin' one post / comment a time...
Happy 4th! (an' yes I'm an American "first" an' bein' jooish does not make me disloyal in any way ;-)
Close to 100 percent US/UK/EU. The "competing" interests of Senora vonder Leyan are astonishing, and EU temoved a case in Brussels by Belgians on Belgium to EU jurisdiction that she controls. If Eurocentric-superiority-persons cannot see this, little chance for diplomacy/words to defuse conflicts exist.
Elsa: I've copy/paste this article from Joe Fallisi, an Italian who was on the 1st flotilla to Gaza years ago. I met him in Vichy, France 2023 at a memorial service.
On October 7, 2023, the day of Operation “Al-Aqsa Flood,” something wonderful and great happened. For the first time the Palestinians, martyred by almost eighty years of massacres, disgusting torture, infinite theft and oppression - by filthy super-armed Jews against civilians (almost) without the possibility of defense -, have gone on the attack, after years of meticulous preparation, finally INVADING "Israel", that is, their own land.
In this heroic and perfectly organized action they naturally killed a certain number of the henchmen of the cursed entity and of occupying and extremely racist settlers. The aim was, also and above all, to make as many prisoners as possible, in order to be able to free, in exchange, their people who have been locked up for years among a thousand torments in Jewish prisons. All the rumors of rapes by the heroes of the Gaza Strip against those attacked have turned out to be false. Exactly like the rumors of the "beheadings" of infants and the like.
It cannot be ruled out at all that the Jewish secret services, and therefore also the criminal Netanyahu, had learned in advance of this act of revolt and did not immediately prevent it in order, they believed, to achieve the fulfillment of their plans: destruction of Gaza and its inhabitants, first of all with the cowardly air raids, mass deportation of survivors to the Sinai, definitive re-occupation of the Strip. It is impossible to even hypothesize, as various Western "dissidents", as idiotic as they are masochistic, spectral and cowardly, have done, that Hamas, the main force of the "Flood", carried it out in complicity with the butchers of Tel Aviv. It would mean that all the other Palestinian factions fighting alongside them would be equally complicit, and the Lebanese, the Yemenis, the Iraqis, the Iranians...
Even though this war has caused so many deaths and unspeakable tragedies and disasters to the Palestinian population, I am always convinced that the "Al-Aqsa Flood" also marked the beginning of the implosion and the end, in blood, disgust and abomination, of "Israel". The Palestinians, towards whom all my love and admiration goes, will have their homeland back.
What do you mean the rapes never happened? Muslim men from radical countries are raping women and girls in many western countries. Look at Sweden, France, England etc. How do you know the rapes on October 7 never happened?
I deplore the violence on either side. I realize that Israel bulldozed many Palestinian villages and killed many Palestinians when they were becoming a nation. They gave little thought to those who were already living there peacefully generation after generation. I believe Zionism was an aggressive movement. As a believer in Christ, I cannot condone hating anyone.
Joe Fellisi, the man I was quoting, is talking about the Hamas people that invaded Oct. 7th. You don't hate anyone? How strange. I was brought up in your religion, but always questioned it. NOW?, Atheist.
David, I never said I didn’t hate anyone. I said that I do not condone hate. All of us struggle with hatred in our hearts because we are fallen and sinful. Whether you were raised in my religion I don’t know. I only know that I was raised in unbelief and now I have embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Countries labeled as Christian are not Christan, if strict adherence to the words and example of Jesus is a primary way of determining whether they are Christian or not.
The blame-everything on Muslims meme makes me sick, especially when, in Mexico, I know about the central-kitchen murders and all the other horrors in Palestine. To pretend this is a war, when one side is a minority of Christians and ethnic othrrs, is amazing to me.
Who is to blame when over 90% of the conflicts in the world involve Muslims? Who is to blame for the over 100verses in the Qu'ran calling for horrible things to be done to non Muslims (also referred to as "kafirs", or cattle). Based on the Qu'ran's demands, ISIS and Al Qaeda members are considered "Observant Muslims". There is deception on the ultimate goals of Islam by Muslims and is so prevalent there is an Arabic word to describe it "Taqiyya".
Personally I'm tired of Muslims playing the victim when they have been the perpetrators throughout history. It was Muslims who shut down the Silk Road. It was Muslims who kidnapped non Muslims making it necessary for us to send the Marines to rescue them, which is where the Marine hymn mentioning Tripoli came from. To this day, there is a saying in southern Italy warning about the Turks who would raid and kidnap their children (covered on the History Channel as well.)
We hear from Muslims about the horrors inflicted on them by Crusaders, but fail to mention it was a respnose to the over 200 years of Islamic terror imposed on the civilized world prior to that.
To get an accurate view of Islam, check out Dr. Bill Warner's book "Political Islam" which covers the three "sacred" Islamic books with interviews with both Muslim and non Muslim scholars.
Most Muslims are great people, but they are entrapped by a theology that is intolerant of those who don't follow it.
I am aware of Turkish horrors against Armenians. I still want answers as to why put-downs are used against persons of Islamic faiths that you do not use against Christians and Jews. I do not see you acknowledging double standards.
I am not understanding why you use the term "Muslim countries." This comes across to me as a failure to understand the tremendous differences in those who respect different texts in Islamic faith communities. Do you see differences among Christians ( of which I am one, to the great surprise of an immigration-attorney in Mexico, as he was used to persons responding with a particular sect-identification among those who purport to be Christian)? How about persons who identify as Jewish? Do they get to follow Torah and the Ten Commandments in a constructive meaning, yet not required subscribe to text in the Old Testament and Talmud that allow for violations of the rights of humans not designated as superior?
I use the term, Muslim countries, just as I would use the term, Christian countries to refer (past tense now) to European countries - though there are many different branches of Christianity. As for different Islamic texts, 99% of Muslims accept the Quran, Sira and some of the main Hadiths.
This is incorrect with both belief systems. Distinctions matter. The murderous verbiage I hear from alleged Christians, to excuse murders, is unreal to me. Humans, whatever labels they slap on themselves, or that others put on them, can be brutal. And can be hospitable. I see Jesus as having asked for hospitality that other traditions counsel as well. To pretend Palestinians get hospitality in their place of nativity is beond the realm of reality to many, including to me.
I use the term Muslim as Muslims use it, and Christian as Christians use it. Perhaps it would be good if you explained your concerns to Muslims and Christians and told them to stop using the terms because distinctions between various Muslims and various Christians matter. If you do this, please let me know what response you get from Muslims and from Christians.
Hamas has no safe way to return hostages. Hostages and others are killed in any efforts. If you are getting information solely from legacy/corporate media, I can perhaps understand why you would not know this. I get multiple sources of information, sometimes ridiculously redacted, with a need to do machinations to find what the redactions are. I do not live in US, so perhaps that is a reason my sources can show what the world outside of US sees. Do you know what the Samson option is? Israeli government does not protect Israeli people. Do you know who Col. MacGregor is? Scott Ritter? Judge Napolitano? Judge Nap hosts various knowledgable interviewees all day. Better you should listen to him than to me. I am nobody, among many noboddies now finding new information daily.
Merry Mary, you write (as I've already noted): Hamas has no safe way to return hostages. Please do some research on how easy it was to return hostages. No danger. Please research how Hamas would not return many hostages. What does that say about Hamas? Also did you make this up, or did someone give you this false information? Be curious.
Hi Merry Mary, I think you may find the information provided in the following videos to be of interest (see links below), and I hope you will have a chance to view them:
The true history of Palestine and Israel - Laura-Lynn Tyler-Thompson with Pastor Georges Antonios:
Hi Merry Mary, I haven't looked at mainstream media in about 15 years!!! On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you don't subscribe to Jihadwatch.com or GellerReport.com - or you'd be aware, for instance, of ongoing Muslim massacres of Christians in Uganda and the Sudan and much more. As for safely returning hostages, according to the sources I've seen (which vary widely) that has not been a problem. However, Hamas chose not to return most. I am sure you are aware of that. If not, I suggest you seek out other sources of information. Judge Nap - I've very aware. Glad you're finding more info daily. Each of us is a somebody.
Netenyahu created Hamas, funds it. It was created to provide the murders of their own people to create the hate to destroy Palestine. Israel is expert at False Flag attacks. For those of you who are not 911 Truthers this video is for you, to educate on how the world got in this mess, how the agenda started, and who started it to begin with? Who planned and orchstrated the 911 False Flag attack? Christopher Bollyn is the man who knows. The 9/11 Studies Club hosted guest speaker Christopher Bollyn at Portland Community College where he discussed the predicament Americans face with a two-party system in which both try to out-do each other to show support for the massive fraud known as the War on Terror.Bollyn, author of “Solving 9/11: The Deception that Changed the World”, traveled through the Middle East and studied the region's history and languages before earning a degree from the University of California at Santa Cruz with an emphasis on the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Having worked as an independent investigative journalist from 2000-2006, Bollyn spent a great deal of time investigating the events of 9/11. In 2007, after having been attacked by undercover police at his home and forced into exile, he began writing “Solving 9-11”, which is dedicated to explaining what really happened and bringing the events of 9-11 into historical perspective. He stayed at my home when he came to speak at San Diego 911 Truth event. He is a very brave man who is laying low right now. Watch this to understand how very important the 911 False Flag Attack is and how Justice for it must occur :
I spent decades avoiding to even think about that region as I'd always felt ever since I was a small child that Islam is oppression, darkness and horror even without any info about it, I just felt. However, I also learned about an Asheknazi lineage in my month's side when I was a 12-year-old and ever since had cherished the history and archaeology of that region, even being a staunch but eclectic pagan. Later as a young adult, in my early twenties, when I took one year of Social Sciences, I learned about the history of the 'new Christians' and their modern descendants in the Iberian Peninsula but especially in Latin America, Brazil being a special country in this respect due to its greater numbers in so many regions of this big nation.
At the university, in the 80s (I finished two courses on Literature with a teaching license for both and left ofther two unfinished all through that decade, one year being of Social Sciences) the usual leftist brainwashing made me think Israel massacred 'Palestinians' and that kept me away from thinking about it cause I just thought it was a mix of Islamist horror with ultra-orthodox conservatism, both of which loathe my minority, LGBTIQs.
However, when I joined the Resistance to Political Islam in mid 2009, I ran into the obvious fact that Jews in Israel also had to deal with the same problem as Hindus have had for over a thousand years to fight against. Then, at the beginning of 2010, I think it was in April or May, I learned that it was actually Islamic supremacism which had acculturated the whole MENA countries, not to mention Indonesia and Malaysia and that most of the lands in the north of Africa and the Middle East had actually been a mix of local pagans, ancient Jewish communities and the first Christians of history, starting obviously with the Jewish Holy Land, what is now Lebanon and Syria and Iraq, aka the Levant and Mesopotamia.
And I also learned that even Saudi Arabia had thriving ancient Jewish communities with the burgeoning Christians.
Here's a link to one, there might be even others we still don't know about or might even be discovered in the future.
Learning about how all of that changed, I immediately understood that Jews were actually decolonizing the region from Islamic supremacists' acculturation and spiritual usurpation.
And unlike the surrounding Islamized and Arabized nations of the Levant and Mesopotamia, Israel allows Mandeans, Druze, Samaritans Christians and even Muslims and modern pagans - not to mention the eastern branch of Rom people, the Domaris - to follow their faiths, living with full rights as its citizens, up to the point of letting those Muslims have chairs in their parliament, the Knesset, from which some of them, ungrateful creeps, try to destroy the country from within, like the infamous Haneem Zoabi.
Fortunately, from the same Zoabi family, there also comes the amazing young activist Mohammed Zoabi, a gay vegetarian Muslim who almost got killed by his own family for openly declaring himself a pround Zionist! And so is his blessed mom, the amazing Sarah Zoabi, both Zionist Muslims! They even had to go into hiding for some time for that.
Most people are unaware that over 20% of Israeli citizens are non Jewish. I prefer to not call them 'Arabs' cause many are actually Levantine families who were Arabized and Islamized by the Arab invasions and later by the Ottoman Empire though some are indeed descendants of those migrants from surrounding Arabized countries to work in the Holy Land at the beginning of the 20th Century,
Then I gradually learn about farm sanctuaries, which warmed my heart being a strict vegetarian for the sake of non humans myself, the intactivists, being also a staunch defender of genital integrity as I am, pagans and progressives of all sorts. It was really wholesome to know that only in that tiny land all that diversity could bloom, despite being surrounded by the worst sort of theocratic oppression which is actually even worse than our own dark phase of western civilization in Medieval Europe could be honestly compared to, unless one is a compromized Marxist historian warping the historical facts.
And when I learned the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, were the only in the world which actually warned the civilians of the enemy people to evacuate the regions they were forced to bomb due to the terrorists using the civilian infrastructure (even hospitals, schools and mosques), with documental footage corroborating the claims, I realized that all the mental feces the pro-Islamic leftists had been brainwashing us with was just that, hideous lies.
I know humans have flaws, there being good people even among Gazans, but these have to speak in absolute anonymity or get killed by the majority of fanatics who even help the many terrorist groups there to perpetrate their crimes, and their testimonies can be heard in the animation series Whispered in Gaza. I pray for that fringe minority of truly good people there and hope they manage to survive the war the majority of monsters brought upon their people by attacking Israel even more in the tragic date of Oct 7th 2023, the worst in decades but certainly not the only one ever since the modern state was founded and neither before that foundation since massacres against Jews had been perpetrated for almos two millennia in the region, the ones with historical records such as the 1517, 1834 in Hebron and the Safed being more known, as the 1929 in Hebron (and the riots in 1922 which also ended with deaths on both sides when some Jews managed to defend themselves, unlike in the 1929, when too many got massacred).
Here is a 92-year-old hag, a muslimah obviously, bragging about how her parents murdered and looted Jews in that massacre in 1929:
The massive majority indeed love to film themselves cheering at the atrocities commited against Israeli civilians and these I confess I have no commiseration whatsoever for. It's a war, one which they started and have openly cheered at every barbarity their terrorists perpetrated on Oct 7th 2023 against Israeli civilians.
By the way, I guess it was yesterday that one of those non Jewish, so-called "Arab"-Israelis, who also happened to be a Muslim supremacist, stabbed two Israeli soldiers in a mall in the country, one of the heroes dying in consequence but fortunately managing to kill the monster before that, so that he didn't get to harm any more innocents in the place.
That ungrateful creature had full citizenship and lived down the same road the soldier he killed lived in, a treacherous neighbor for sure and this should wake up people to the real threat that having such people with this murderous mindset living amongst us actually is.
These traitors to the nation which feeds them are all over the country, plotting to destroy if from within. Now it's the turn of western nations to understand what Israel has always had to cope with, the difference being pro-Islamic leftists (in the majority but also with a few right wingers joining the suicidal bunch) are aiding them to Islamize and acculturate all our nations, whether it's here in my homeland, Brazil, or in Mexico, in Australia or New Zeland,etc, etc,etc.
I am horrified by this clear failure to distinguish differences and by the dismissive snd patronizing tones. The first return on a simple search concerning distinction between Muslim and Islamicist was one I found deeply inconsistent with careful world-research I have done to this point. Some see some possible common heritage with the current Israeli rulers as a reason the Saudis seem fine with massacres of Aramaic-speakers. Others think other countries are bribed and have had targeted regime-changes, such as the assassination of Mossedegh (name probably misspelled). Third down in my search was diffen.com/difference/Islam/. I could not see more of the url than I posted here. I may be soon offline if Madam Beryl crashes power where I am. Nonetheless, I wished to share this.
I don't really get your point but I must tell the readers that after almost fifteen years reading, watching videos with testimonies from different MENA countries, especially from ex-Muslims but not only, I'm convinced the majority such countries are either extremely tied to mainstream interpretations of Islam - which do not accept reform towards western values = or actually unabashed ultra-orthodox schools, which, in the case of Islamic supremacism, becomes a real problem since ultra-orthodox Jews don't ever want to convert non Jews, as they think one must be born of matrilineal ancestry to be considered a true Israelite whereas mainstream Muslims think it's their duty to spread Islam.
Once moderate orthodox Muslims get besieged by riots caused by openly supremacist followers of their doctrine, no one will be able to stop them.
Just take, for example, the recent riots in the UK, Canada or the US, where crowds of 'Palestinians' (whatever that word means) with radical leftists supporting them, have attacked the police. I also remember another similar footage from Sweden, where they violently attack the police cars and officers as well.
Jews have become an easy target, not only Zionists, all over the world now exactly because these supremacists are in no way a minority of 'radicals'.
The recent footages of mobs lynching non Muslim minorities, burning their houses and shops in Pakistan are but a glimpse of what has always happened in these regions where Muslims have become a majority, not to mention that Pakistan itself was a creation of Islamic separatism and even Bangladesh did not escape the poisonous fruits of the latter ideology even after splitting from Pakistan.
The same supposed minority of 'radicals' have been trying to split southern Thailand and seem to start problems in Myangmar in that dreadful direction. These 'radicals' certainly have done the same to Sudan and the numbers of tehir victims are counting, as the numbers of Boko Haram and El Shabbab's as well.
I don't see how a supposed minority would make Saudi laws so babaric to date and turn beautiful Persia, an Indo-European culture of the same rank as ancient Greece, to become that hellhole of Islamic pastiche which usurped the true Indo-Iranian identity of whole tribes of the Iranian branch, Kurds included.
I can't see how a supposed 'minority' of radicals has turned the lives of thousands of Yazidis into hell for centuries and the same for the Hindu victims in that subcontinent. Oh, Hindus can tell of the huge numbers in the massacres that supposed 'minority' of radical Muslims has inflicted on them, and counting too.
The north of Africa had the Amazighs fighting for their cultures and people, Dihya gave her life to fight them till she got killed by that same 'minority' of radicals invading all the north of that continent, from which, by the way, even a Catholic saint stemmed:
Or Coptic Christianity in Egypt, which inherited all the glory of the Hellenistic and Roman periods.
Even Saudi Arabia had once been a thriving multicultural society in which native pagans coexited relatively peacefully with one of the first Christian communities outside the Levant and Mesopotamia, together with their ancient Jewish communities, Medina itself being a very Jewish center.
Aramaic dialects were spoken from the south regions in what is now Israel and Gaza to what is now Iraq, but Islamic invasions gradually turned them into enclaves in their own lands.
Of course Pan-Arabists will try to argue that the Arabization had already started with the Christian Ghassanids but I sincerely doubt that which I deem a blatant fallacy cause Aramaic was held dearly and sacred even by Christians, having actually influenced the Koran and no Christian would ever leave their Aramaic treasures which they associated as the language of Yeshuah ben Yossef, aka Jesus, even though the dialect he spoke was actually Aramaic.
In practice, they knew they were all dialects of the same and one language which for them had become a symbol of Christianity itself as their lord has spoken it! Nowadays, scholars are more prone to admit Jesus, as most Levantines, spoke several languages, as they had to deal with the Roman invaders and certainly many had knowledge of Greek too.
The Jewish sects of Ebionites seem to have survived with the help of Greek speaking Jews up to the fourth century CE, when the Graeco-Roman churches finally smashed them with their deplorable persecution.
I know religious persecutions have always existed but it's not about tehological discussions about Islam, that is quite another realm of the fight against Islamic supremacism in my opinion.
In my opinion, what truly matters is the obvious fact that most Islamic countries have shaped their laws - and perhaps even worse: the mindset of their masses - on the most reactionary values, the worst interpretations of their faith, the corroboration of which are the facts attested by many pieces of documental footage and testimony of survivors when one really gives a voice to their victims past and present, instead of lapping up the whitewashed version of Islamic history.
On July 17, 2024, the Knesset, Israel’s parliament, passed legislation opposing a Palestinian state. Period. In light of the heinous attack of October 7, it’s understandable that Israel would not want to discuss a 2 state solution now. The legislation termed a Palestinian state as an “existential threat”. Support for a one state solution, however, leaves no room for a solution to the Palestinian/Israel conflict.
Whoever created Oct 7 did a great job of creating a very bad situation - bit lots of nasty background (Islam, etc)
Yes, that is for sure. Netanyahu is scheduled to meet in Washington, DC today concerning Israel/Palestinian relations. It sounds like Israel has sent a loud and clear message ahead of his visit.
I’m very glad we can have this discussion
on Gaza/Palestine. Like you Elsa, I’m learning a lot and clarifying some of my previously held beliefs because of new information that I didn’t have before. I’ve traditionally always endorsed Israel seeing them as our ally in the Middle East.
The past 5 years or so I’ve really been questioning a lot of the narratives the US has put forth, in particular 911. I have no doubt that our ally in the Middle East has done similar things. It’s interesting that many here were calling it Israel’s 911. I’m inclined to say what links both “911s” is the ability of both governments to do terrible things to its own citizens. I find it difficult to believe that Israel accidentally left their border exposed. I’m inclined to believe they may have planned the entire attack for the purpose of finally being able to achieve their long desired goal of obliterating the Palestinians. Israel throughout history has always played the innocent victim. They have led the world to believe they embarked upon a noble goal of making a Jewish homeland from a barren, unoccupied land when in reality that could not be further from the truth. In the late 19th century and the first half of the 20th century , the area was a thriving home for the Palestinians. They had their own villages, gardens, homes, jobs and way of life. They lived peaceably with their Jewish and Christian neighbors who were the minority. Zionism never intended anything good for the Palestinian people. Once the globalist Rothschild family had coerced Britain into signing the Balfour Declaration of 1917 declaring Palestine a home for not just Jews but the Jewish race, the fate of the Palestinians was sealed. The Zionist movement now had the backing of one of the world’s superpowers who could put down any Palestinian protests and uprisings. The Rothschilds had been encouraging settlement of Palestine even well before the Balfour Declaration. The Rothschilds had been buying up some of the land during the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Empire fighting on the side of Germany was broken up after Germany was defeated in World War I. Britain now had the mandate on Palestine. Israel has whitewashed the destruction of 400-500 Palestinian villages, the massacre of thousands of Palestinians and the takeover of 75% of the land all in just one year between 1948 and 1949 to make way for their new country. If I had lived in Palestine during this time, I don’t think I would have had a very favorable view of the settlers. In fact, I dare say I probably would have hated them. Has Israel ever acknowledged the suffering they caused the Palestinians in the years their Jewish state was founded or the suffering they continue to cause? Of course countries all over the world have caused egregious suffering to others. My Pastor used to say in things like this, “Whoever has the power, tends to abuse it”. I couldn’t agree more. Like you Elsa, I don’t wish Israel out of existence or the US or Canada or Australia. I wouldn’t give a dime for Hamas. It seems like they’ve hijacked what was once a seemingly peaceful people. We’ve talked about the 2 state solution for over 100 years now and it doesn’t seem like it’s working. Israel always says that they’ve offered at least 5 times but in my opinion, they don’t want a 2 state solution anymore than the Palestinians.
Regarding your last comment , my evaluation is very different.
YOUR COMMENT: We’ve talked about the 2 state solution for over 100 years now and it doesn’t seem like it’s working. Israel always says that they’ve offered at least 5 times but in my opinion, they don’t want a 2 state solution anymore than the Palestinians.
MY EVALUATION: Israel accepted the 5 proposals (which were not from Israel, but Israel accepted the proposals). Gaza (Hamas, whatever) REFUSED EACH AND EVERY PROPOSAL. It is very important to acknowledge this. The evidence clearly shows that Israel was willing to have a 2-state solution, but that Hamas (Gaza) was not. You have completely misrepresented reality, twisted it to its opposite. I believe you would do well to look at the Hamas charter which is about the complete eradication of Israel. IMPORTANT THAT YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS AND TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT.
Well that is fair enough. I was always under the impression that the 5 proposals came from Israel so that is a clarification. Is the Hamas Charter on one of the links here? If so I will take a look at it. I have no affection for Hamas whatsoever or any other terrorist organization.
The proposals definitely did not come from Israel - but in each cse, Israel said yes, and Hamas (Gaza, etc) said no. Very important. For the charter, I don't have a link, but it is around - and in it is wiping out. Israel You know the chant: from the river to the sea . . . That links to getting rid of Israel 100%.
I see in 2017, Hamas revised their charter of 1988. They now say their struggle is against the Zionist Project which is the Zionist
Movement that confiscated their land and not the Jews or their religion. I’m stating what they’re stating. They acknowledge that all of the land belongs to the Palestinians from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and north and south. Their goal is to eventually take their land back. I can’t see anywhere although I didn’t read the entire document, just skimmed it, what they would do with Israel. Maybe they would like to move Israel to the Sinai Peninsula as it is purported by a leaked Israeli document, Israel would like to do with them. I don’t trust Hamas, but I also don’t completely trust the Israeli government.
Good luck! I often wonder when a situation or issue becomes overly complex to the point that no one understands it. Normally, that complexity is intentional and meant to keep the problem unsolveable. I don't think there is a good solution given the hate that exists. I hope I'm wrong and you learn more that you can share to help lift this veil which hangs over Israel/Gaza.
Right now, the Istaeli government officials have been saying unbelievable things about Palestinians, and these things have been recorded in court. Do you accept phrases like " mow the-grass" against human beings? White phosphorus weapons used by Israelis? I 2as active with Jewish Voice for peace in the US, and I receive news feeds from Mondeweiss? The testimonies of persons dissed as self-hating mean something to me. Does each legislator have s Palestinian minder? How can the imbalance of power be so overlooked?
You have received many comments and links. I do not have evidence that you have taken in any of it. Nor do I have evidence that you've looked at anything, like the videos from the "Son of Hamas," whose father was a major Hamas figure.
I very much appreciate the wonderful work you are doing for truth and justice (Reiner Füllmich, Ed Wackerman, and other people and causes). I also appreciate and respect your position in the Israel/Gaza situation and value your “respectful discussion” approach regarding this topic.
In this very interesting post, you mention that readers had sent you links. I have a few links to send as well.
A couple of these feature Mosab Hassan Yousef [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef ]; perhaps you’re familiar with him. I find what he says to be exceptionally informative. The third link is to a video of an interview by Canadian independent journalist Laura-Lynn Tyler-Thompson with someone who has profound knowledge of the history of Israel and Palestine, as well as the ability to share that information in a clear and understandable way.
You are no doubt inundated with links already, but I hope you might be able to put these on your “to-watch” list, if you have not already seen them:
Laura-Lynn Tyler-Thompson with Pastor Georges Antonios: The true history of Palestine and Israel:
https://rumble.com/v53x8v9-the-truth-about-palestine-and-israel.html
Son of Hamas Co-Founder Denounces Group at UN, Exposes 'Savage' Indoctrination of Palestinian Kids:
https://youtu.be/pjOEJumoABg?si=D0HoGt1FQc49rwYO
Mosab Hassan Yousef (Son of Hamas): “Palestine means the absence of Israel”:
https://youtu.be/YzbPwr6HXWI?si=hkOSnrXz8mlUsAaz
Thank you so much.
Thank you for the links. Like you, I very much appreciate the "Son of Hamas." And I look forward to lthe interview done by Laura-Lynn Tyler-Thompson. I still have huge amounts to learn.
a hot topic indeed Elsa, an' blessin's for statin' yer beliefs which certainly ta many is goin' "against the grain." I'm with ya 100%--
Like MOST countries -- from their very inception-- Israel also has some dubious funkiness under the hood--the USA too an' most others. What "the people" knew was not what the folks at the table knew. But I'd say Israel is now held to a different standard... in some ways (like with the death jabs) they themselfs had no standards! But there is more to any country than some lousy leaders an' lousy laws--which (mostly) can be UNdone. Our supreme court (supreme bein' kinda ironic now) has gestured in that direction--Israel needs a lotta the same fixin'. BUT nevertheless... I am for it existin' too!
"Zionists" are not one unified body--there are the equivalent of "Rhinos" among'em and ALSO there are at least 3 kinds of zionism---the current "political" in-TARnation has little to do with chews just wantin' a home... philosophical zionism--the only one most joos knew about wherever they are on the political or religious spectrum. Sure, there is religious zionism too. But like I said, wantin' a home (in a place that has significant meaning an' jewish history EVEN for the "secular" joos--I'll git ta that) is neither super political nor super religious since it was never thought of for "only" the Orthodox (in fact they played only a small role at first)... So. There's. That.
Many points ta "argue" around this issue but I'll state 3 off the bat that others git wrong:
1. jews are jews an' don't have to be super religious to "count" as joos (ask Hitler--wuther he's still a villain or yer hero as I know his reputation has been salvaged recently--) He wanted ta root out EVERY joo--religious or not. OH ask Stalin or anyone in USSR--even in secular USSR where joos were not to be discriminated against--they were--most've 'em had no idea of synagogue or temple but they "felt" discrimination when they got demoted or discovered the kosher ceiling (professorships out of reach or tenure, etc) or got the rotten apartments, etc. So wuther ya'll think this was a GREAT idea or a lousy one--the reason most "refuseniks" came over to the US & Canada from USSR was b/c they were discriminated against for bein' joos--not b/c they were religious as most were not (I knew many personally an' kin vouch for this)... So please stop sayin' as outsiders that you git ta say who is/ain't a joo.
I'll also start with sayin' that most don't understand that all us "chews" are TORAH chews -- it's not like ya pick Oh I'm a torah jew, I'm a talmud jew, I'm a kabbalah jew. Not matter what branch--even Reform, even Revisionist, Humanistic etc....
cont'd
I'm with you, and very much appreciate your huge knowledge.
shucks, just tryin' to explain to folks that look in from the outside an' don't even try to understand... never thought I'd have to EVER talk 'bout this stuff but I cannot be silent.... I feel I gotta at least TRY to show what they're missin'.... I'm a mite (!) long-winded but folks got used ta tweets an' short bytes an' miss that this is all complex stuff!
You can't say everything in 25 words or less. You can say, life is complicated - but don't try to explain the complexity in a tweet!
thx! okay--I mebbe quite the prolix one, but here's the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood hot off the press tellin' the world succinctly--in English no less--that after they take Israel an' kill the joos they're gonna RULE THE WORLD -- in under 3 minutes he sez it all...
https://x.com/MEMRIReports/status/1807138970289275317
I guess a lotta folks "voted for this?"--this is what they're beggin' for on campus? duz not compute!
You compute. I compute. On campus, where learning "should" be vital, there is a marked absence of computing skills in evidence. Too bad, or this world would be very different.
Sigh. I didn't see the age of "not computin'" bein' built--it clearly happened when I wasn't lookin' (like from 2000-2020!)--we homeschooled (my eldest is a young adult now, my teen near-done with "homeschool high school") -- so I blithely assumed things were as they were!
So AGREE! learnin' was vital an' FUN! an' everyone could argue their "pernt" an' it was a smorgasbord of the best food ever--the profs were SO inta their specialties (like 17th C french lit--they had it covered!)-- that it was like drinkin' from the very font of knowledge--likely ya had the same experience.
Couldn't stop eatin' from that "help yerself" table -- I'd still be in college if it was what it "wuz" --now they're too bizzy on camp-puss bein' "warriors" an' bein' grossly uninformed 'bout the "causes" they support. We're still learnin' (college in the mind is life-long) but these kids are unlearnin' common sense ;-)
Meantimes this is an interestin' take from a velly smart lady from UK:
https://melaniephillips.substack.com/p/can-israel-afford-to-stand-up-to?
I'm sorta non-interventionist--not for "our" fighting the wars of others--but that said I don't really want to live under the Iranian Caliphate either! I've written I'm no fan of BBGun (his rhetoric, the sellin' out of Israel to Big Pharma) BUT this gave me pause... the analogy of givin' lip service to helpin' Israel while chainin' one hand.... not a long read...
MOST are "only" torah chews but the egg-heads (men who study all day / haredi in Israel, ultra Orthodox here in the US fer example) STUDY talmud.... they are not "talmudic jews" they are talmudic scholars. Talmud is not a type of judaism... it's a legal encyclopaedia of opinions! (to be argued--enthusiastically!)-- want examples? I listed a modern podcast below...
Meanwhile the talmudic scholars might have family members that know little of talmud--it's not a "faith" is a study course! (lifelong for many) Most women traditionally did not know of talmud as they were not allowed to study it.
I state that jews-are-jews apart from those who are secular ta the point of not wantin' anythin' ta do with their heritage/faith --those who have abandoned it (some have done this famously and are cherry picked to speak out against the jews...sigh) But for the rest've us....
What most outsiders not raised in this faith don't understand is that MOST fully secular jewish "atheists" still identify as joos AND most-not-all -- if they grow up goin' to temple, learnin' about judaism etc--STILL practice many torah tenets AND celebrate the holidays AND yes, even as atheists honor the rituals an' even "do jewish stuff." This is totally different from what many "think" an' use to "write off" Israel as a bunch'a atheists who "are not even jewish." Not true...
To wit, 10/7 was Simcha Torah (celebration of the torah) an' even the Nova fest was a jooish fest celebratin' the Simcha (joy)... even tho' all were welcome and to some it wuz just some big party. Jus' sayin'...
Also, I cannot list on one piece of lined paper the so-called fully secular jews that said kaddish for dead parents or gran'parents or gathered for passover yearly or took off work on Yom Kippur or keep many of the traditions of their choosing (I know one that keeps sabbath because "it's good for the kids" yet hasn't set foot in a temple for decades)--there are more varieties of "jooish" as ice cream but the ten commandments and other traditions still make us "one" faith--full of folks arguin'--but to argue is to be a joo! Y'all may not now there are even beautiful books of prayers an' blessin's for SECULAR joos:
"The Book of Blessings by Marcial Falk" is one've 'me AND and and and... the entire world of "Humanistic Judaism" (partly my own) is a whole branch of the faith with temples an' traditions and everything ALL for so-called atheistic or agnostic or secular joos--for those who embrace the religion but not the traditionally taught "god"... even if they believe we DO have a divine creator... so there's that...
This stuff wouldn't exist (here and in "oh israel") were there not a need for it an' tho' there are those very frum (religious) Orthodox who would dismiss all the rest of us as "not countin'" as joos because we don't strictly keep the faith "their way"--MOST accept the wide variety of joos on the planet. period. (I've spent quality time with both Orthodox an' some ultras...Billyburg, Borough Park--an' I never got treated badly though they understood I was not so "frum" / strict....)
Sooooo sayin' that all joos ain't joos 'cept the Orthodox ('specially when referrin' to Israel) is literally outsiders imposin' a judgment that jews don't impose on "their own." B/c it makes sense to them because that's how their faith works...or non-faith works...whateveah--but definin' others accordin' to "your" experience does not always work
Now is is true that there are rotten jews that do not keep the 10 or honor torah an' still call themselfs "joos?" Sure! Epstein, Maxwells, an' others they rub elbows with is a start--oh an Larry the Fink... But then regular folks go an' say joos-r-bad an' here are examples provin' it! Now if ya gotta rotten Catholic priest or a rotten Presbyterian or Mormon (I'll spare ya names but it's not only joos that have their crooks an' baddies)--does that tar all in their faith? No. Nobuddy sez "Catholics are rotten" if some priests are pedos--they say "there are issues in the Church." I'll say BBGun is rotten but he does not make all joos or even all Israelis rotten too. SO I do not git it...
cont'd
Agreed. But you say this better than I could. I know many very very secular Jews who definitely consider themselves Jewish - who are, I agree, Jewish.
cont'd
The rotten Rothschilds are a case in point. They are no more rotten than the non-jooish Rockerfellers--who even built a giant CHURCH!---but the Rothschilds mostly disdain joos an' renounce their heritage. Sure call'em joos if ya like, they have decryed bein' jooish for over 100 years (they have intermarried lots too) an' said in interviews for decades that they don't practice the faith--an' many've us know their connection with the state of Israel was a bizness deal for the Crown (their British "masters" an' no they don't rule the world but go ahead, think what'cha like).... but folks insist these not-really-joos represent all joos (rich, corrupt, high up) which is baloney. So are they joos? Sure, per Hitler they would be -- but they are not more representative of the faith / tribe / culcha' than con man Al Sharpton represents all blacks.
Anywho this is all ta say that outsiders tellin' joos "who they are" is kinda crazy an' also wrong when they use this argue-mint to say joos ain't joos so they have no right to Israel... JOOS is JOOS.
Also "chewish atheists" are not fully stripped of their jewish identities (as outsiders here an' elsewhar on the innertubes) assume-- including part of their identity which IS connected with the faith. So it's not just "oh we eat bagles an' like Seinfeld"--no no no--
TABLET (a good source for all things jooish -- many that contrast & contradict each other!) -- covered this odd fact 'bout joos:
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/community/articles/the-minyan-jewish-atheists
So first, folks should stop sayin' Joos ain't Joos "BY THEIR STANDARDS" (also if needed I kin show 12+ genetic studies that disprove the whole malarkey Khazarian myth). Who are "you" from the outside ta tell joos if they are / ain't jooish? Nobuddy walks up to others (regardless of their faith) in this the 21st c an' sez "you ain't black" or "you ain't Italian" or "you ain't Protestant" an' yet everyone sez jews ain't joos. (We do know who we are ... oy)
As fer the genetics issue raised, Israel was to be a safe haven-state for joos. What it does is bypass regular citizenship processes if you show yer a joo first. They thought it was a good idear. You may disagree? Fine, I don't agree with all policies of every country for citizenship either. Some countries'll quarantine yer dog for MONTHS if you travel with them--I find that horrific. But I don't say a country is not legit because it has a sucky policy. Now many of us chews have proof of our chewishness--boat records, religious documents (katuba for marriages) etc.... and ONLY those who do not (mind ya, I have no plans to move to Israel unless they start roundin' us up in the USA...) need ta prove they "are." It's not just by DNA--I think you kin talk about your upbringin' an' if you know the stories, songs, whatever--you pass the interview. It is ONLY those who have no proof whatever that they're joos that need to take the DNA test IF they want instant citizenship... I.e. IF they wanna make the CHOICE to move to Israel. Which purdy much sez the DNA thing IsReal (yes it is, even fer us Ashkenazis who are no, not nazis) But mind ya, those who have converted would not have to show any DNA... eg. Sammy Davis Jr. Debbie Reynolds Elizabeth Taylor ... OK? They too get instant "in."
Conversion is not easy, it's a purdy lengthy process--so it assures folks don't just walk in like our current situation in the USA--an' oh the irony--folks are startin' to "not like it" that MyGrunts git free green cards (our ancestors did not) but they blame Israel for havin' criteria?...
By whose dick-tat or "law" can othersides state, "OH you do not git ta create a country for one people b/c we say so!"? Really, is there a rule by which a country must be formed? Genes NOT ok, heritage NOT ok.... I fail ta see that rule book. Ghenghis Kahn & Alexander the Great didn't dig up such rule books... nor should you-all. (An' yes, Britain did not have "ownership" of the territory they handed over but they said they did an' acted like it...it's all very complicated)
So when folks say Israelis are all secular an' that makes them not joos, it's not really true--a secular jew who doesn't fully claim another faith may still even be.. a jew. To wit, Andrew Claven... who could not keep silent when a certain situation arose. EVEN as a Christian pundit (he was born a chew...). So you see... it's complicated....
(cont'd)
2. Everyone misunderstands both Talmud an' Kabblah.
First, Talmud is a book of legal an' ethical opinions and arguments and nobody FOLLOWS it. YES there are shocking things in in, many far more shocking via MIS-Translation. So nu? The Christian Bible has passages about cannibalism, prostitution, an' murder. Should we say all Christians that honor the bible are sickos? Of COURSE not.
First, long ago in ancient times it was free-for-all, no laws. In the old testament (the jewish bible) first five books we see God/G_d tryin' ta make laws to stop folks from doin' stuff like killin' each other an' stealin' an' worshipping "idols" and other not good stuff (stealin' / rapin' ladies). Wuther ya take this literally or more as a set of instructional allegories, etc. the point is, those first books WERE a beginning... to create rules, laws, where none existed before--but they were not enough. THINGS have CHANGED since that time. Many things not even imagined!
Hence...Talmud tried to further formulate laws by havin' the often totally polar opposite arguments put in there of "wisemen"--rabbis, scholars, etc. EVEN today they are argued but many are devils advocate arguments... (i.e. for debate by the talmud scholars)...not for "real"... speculative b/c impossible under Torah which always comes first.
Also the 10 Commandments are written in STONE (ha ha--couldn't resist...) so, we know "thou shall not kill" is non-negociable. OK so in Talmud you might see arguments about killin' someone for this or that reason--debate in the topic--that doesn't "trump" the 10--it's "in theory"
BUT if ya wanna see what Talmud IS about LOOK at the podcasts below.
(Fyi, Talmud is not about rapin' babies... that one semi-mistranslated argument that's bandied about the innertubes "as if" it was jewish law--was not sayin' it's law--it was sayin' "IF this happens IS the child a virgin or not?"--in theory--an' they argued it out... NOT A LAW or a rule condoning a condemned practice (fergawds sake--folks do REALLY wanna believe joos are evil incarnate don't they?) --Do you see chews all over rapin' babies? (there are horrific crimes against children by members of all faiths but this is NOT woven into the faith as bein' ok--ever). I ask, must you hide your kids from chews wherever they lurk? (duck duck it's Jackie Mason--a rabbi no less! hide yer daughters!...er, really?)
TALMUD for beginners argued by modern folks
https://www.tabletmag.com/podcasts/take-one
3. last but not least... (among many issues) CHOSEN means DESIGNATED not SUPERIOR...
Joos have been in PR for a long time promotin' OTHERS' products / services but they do turrible PR for themselves in not explainin' that bein' "chosen" does not mean they are better, faster, superior or any such malarkey. Chosen means picked out for a task--teacher (God) sez, I pick/choose you bunch'a kids to hand out the math homework, I pick/choose you bunch of kids standing near me to help carry these books to the kindergarten class).
Joos were chosen as test subjects because they happened to be a good sized test group that sort'a hung together and God (in the bible) was already workin' with 'em (sometimes helping, guiding, protecting, etc). So his idea was to make up some very sound commandments to START the people on a road to being moral, good creatures doin' "Him" (Her?) justice. YOU will be the group to follow my new rules and you are chosen to set an example to others for follerin' 'em. You can and likely will mess up along the way and I'll have to figger out how to help you--but you'll try ta be good students and set an example--you will not convert others, you'll just show what it's like bein' righteous (a mensch!) as best you can. THAT is what chosen means. Bein' the selected guinea pigs for God to figger out how to get us humans to behave better. Picked because joos were a group together (not yet jooish but descended from Abraham) an' this group of famblies seemed like great test subjects.
So... last lesson:
Chosen does not mean better, superior, smarter, greater--it means designated for a job as test subjects--"God" (our creator, the divine spirt...) is in ALL of us and loves all people... Bad PR is that chosen is not explained.
Are there joos with swulled heads? Sure. Are there Christians with swulled heads? Divas of all faiths? Pompous Kings an others who have ego issues? YES. But most joos just live their lives as ordinary folks an' do NOT think they are chosen for much beyond an IRS audit!
'nuff said--I'm sure it will git some heat--I'll likely not argue much back as everyone has a right to their "onions" but I try ta redeem us from generalizin' one post / comment a time...
Happy 4th! (an' yes I'm an American "first" an' bein' jooish does not make me disloyal in any way ;-)
I just did. I assume varieties of both self-labeling groups gather data from your site.
Close to 100 percent US/UK/EU. The "competing" interests of Senora vonder Leyan are astonishing, and EU temoved a case in Brussels by Belgians on Belgium to EU jurisdiction that she controls. If Eurocentric-superiority-persons cannot see this, little chance for diplomacy/words to defuse conflicts exist.
Elsa: I've copy/paste this article from Joe Fallisi, an Italian who was on the 1st flotilla to Gaza years ago. I met him in Vichy, France 2023 at a memorial service.
On October 7, 2023, the day of Operation “Al-Aqsa Flood,” something wonderful and great happened. For the first time the Palestinians, martyred by almost eighty years of massacres, disgusting torture, infinite theft and oppression - by filthy super-armed Jews against civilians (almost) without the possibility of defense -, have gone on the attack, after years of meticulous preparation, finally INVADING "Israel", that is, their own land.
In this heroic and perfectly organized action they naturally killed a certain number of the henchmen of the cursed entity and of occupying and extremely racist settlers. The aim was, also and above all, to make as many prisoners as possible, in order to be able to free, in exchange, their people who have been locked up for years among a thousand torments in Jewish prisons. All the rumors of rapes by the heroes of the Gaza Strip against those attacked have turned out to be false. Exactly like the rumors of the "beheadings" of infants and the like.
It cannot be ruled out at all that the Jewish secret services, and therefore also the criminal Netanyahu, had learned in advance of this act of revolt and did not immediately prevent it in order, they believed, to achieve the fulfillment of their plans: destruction of Gaza and its inhabitants, first of all with the cowardly air raids, mass deportation of survivors to the Sinai, definitive re-occupation of the Strip. It is impossible to even hypothesize, as various Western "dissidents", as idiotic as they are masochistic, spectral and cowardly, have done, that Hamas, the main force of the "Flood", carried it out in complicity with the butchers of Tel Aviv. It would mean that all the other Palestinian factions fighting alongside them would be equally complicit, and the Lebanese, the Yemenis, the Iraqis, the Iranians...
Even though this war has caused so many deaths and unspeakable tragedies and disasters to the Palestinian population, I am always convinced that the "Al-Aqsa Flood" also marked the beginning of the implosion and the end, in blood, disgust and abomination, of "Israel". The Palestinians, towards whom all my love and admiration goes, will have their homeland back.
What do you mean the rapes never happened? Muslim men from radical countries are raping women and girls in many western countries. Look at Sweden, France, England etc. How do you know the rapes on October 7 never happened?
I deplore the violence on either side. I realize that Israel bulldozed many Palestinian villages and killed many Palestinians when they were becoming a nation. They gave little thought to those who were already living there peacefully generation after generation. I believe Zionism was an aggressive movement. As a believer in Christ, I cannot condone hating anyone.
Joe Fellisi, the man I was quoting, is talking about the Hamas people that invaded Oct. 7th. You don't hate anyone? How strange. I was brought up in your religion, but always questioned it. NOW?, Atheist.
David, I never said I didn’t hate anyone. I said that I do not condone hate. All of us struggle with hatred in our hearts because we are fallen and sinful. Whether you were raised in my religion I don’t know. I only know that I was raised in unbelief and now I have embraced the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Countries labeled as Christian are not Christan, if strict adherence to the words and example of Jesus is a primary way of determining whether they are Christian or not.
The blame-everything on Muslims meme makes me sick, especially when, in Mexico, I know about the central-kitchen murders and all the other horrors in Palestine. To pretend this is a war, when one side is a minority of Christians and ethnic othrrs, is amazing to me.
Who is to blame when over 90% of the conflicts in the world involve Muslims? Who is to blame for the over 100verses in the Qu'ran calling for horrible things to be done to non Muslims (also referred to as "kafirs", or cattle). Based on the Qu'ran's demands, ISIS and Al Qaeda members are considered "Observant Muslims". There is deception on the ultimate goals of Islam by Muslims and is so prevalent there is an Arabic word to describe it "Taqiyya".
Personally I'm tired of Muslims playing the victim when they have been the perpetrators throughout history. It was Muslims who shut down the Silk Road. It was Muslims who kidnapped non Muslims making it necessary for us to send the Marines to rescue them, which is where the Marine hymn mentioning Tripoli came from. To this day, there is a saying in southern Italy warning about the Turks who would raid and kidnap their children (covered on the History Channel as well.)
We hear from Muslims about the horrors inflicted on them by Crusaders, but fail to mention it was a respnose to the over 200 years of Islamic terror imposed on the civilized world prior to that.
To get an accurate view of Islam, check out Dr. Bill Warner's book "Political Islam" which covers the three "sacred" Islamic books with interviews with both Muslim and non Muslim scholars.
Most Muslims are great people, but they are entrapped by a theology that is intolerant of those who don't follow it.
This is the History we were not taught. These are the facts that brought us to this point in time. This is a good explaination of the word Nazi. And how the world transformed around it unknowingly of the real truth. Eustace Mullins explains.https://rumble.com/v54nwbv-history-you-have-not-been-exposed-to-very-important-and-explains-so-much.html
I am aware of Turkish horrors against Armenians. I still want answers as to why put-downs are used against persons of Islamic faiths that you do not use against Christians and Jews. I do not see you acknowledging double standards.
Please let me know the putdowns of Muslims (people of Islamic faiths) you're referring to.
I am not understanding why you use the term "Muslim countries." This comes across to me as a failure to understand the tremendous differences in those who respect different texts in Islamic faith communities. Do you see differences among Christians ( of which I am one, to the great surprise of an immigration-attorney in Mexico, as he was used to persons responding with a particular sect-identification among those who purport to be Christian)? How about persons who identify as Jewish? Do they get to follow Torah and the Ten Commandments in a constructive meaning, yet not required subscribe to text in the Old Testament and Talmud that allow for violations of the rights of humans not designated as superior?
What I notice most is that you have chosen not to answer my many questions. Instead you seem to be looking for something to criticize.
I use the term, Muslim countries, just as I would use the term, Christian countries to refer (past tense now) to European countries - though there are many different branches of Christianity. As for different Islamic texts, 99% of Muslims accept the Quran, Sira and some of the main Hadiths.
This is incorrect with both belief systems. Distinctions matter. The murderous verbiage I hear from alleged Christians, to excuse murders, is unreal to me. Humans, whatever labels they slap on themselves, or that others put on them, can be brutal. And can be hospitable. I see Jesus as having asked for hospitality that other traditions counsel as well. To pretend Palestinians get hospitality in their place of nativity is beond the realm of reality to many, including to me.
I use the term Muslim as Muslims use it, and Christian as Christians use it. Perhaps it would be good if you explained your concerns to Muslims and Christians and told them to stop using the terms because distinctions between various Muslims and various Christians matter. If you do this, please let me know what response you get from Muslims and from Christians.
Hamas has no safe way to return hostages. Hostages and others are killed in any efforts. If you are getting information solely from legacy/corporate media, I can perhaps understand why you would not know this. I get multiple sources of information, sometimes ridiculously redacted, with a need to do machinations to find what the redactions are. I do not live in US, so perhaps that is a reason my sources can show what the world outside of US sees. Do you know what the Samson option is? Israeli government does not protect Israeli people. Do you know who Col. MacGregor is? Scott Ritter? Judge Napolitano? Judge Nap hosts various knowledgable interviewees all day. Better you should listen to him than to me. I am nobody, among many noboddies now finding new information daily.
Merry Mary, you write (as I've already noted): Hamas has no safe way to return hostages. Please do some research on how easy it was to return hostages. No danger. Please research how Hamas would not return many hostages. What does that say about Hamas? Also did you make this up, or did someone give you this false information? Be curious.
Hi Merry Mary, I think you may find the information provided in the following videos to be of interest (see links below), and I hope you will have a chance to view them:
The true history of Palestine and Israel - Laura-Lynn Tyler-Thompson with Pastor Georges Antonios:
https://rumble.com/v53x8v9-the-truth-about-palestine-and-israel.html
Son of Hamas Co-Founder Denounces Group at UN, Exposes 'Savage' Indoctrination of Palestinian Kids:
https://youtu.be/pjOEJumoABg?si=D0HoGt1FQc49rwYO
Mosab Hassan Youssef (Son of Hamas): “Palestine means the absence of Israel”:
https://youtu.be/YzbPwr6HXWI?si=hkOSnrXz8mlUsAaz
My sense is that it would be eye-opening for Merry Mary to listen to the "Son of Hamas," who started out as a total insider.
Hi Merry Mary, I haven't looked at mainstream media in about 15 years!!! On the other hand, I'm pretty sure you don't subscribe to Jihadwatch.com or GellerReport.com - or you'd be aware, for instance, of ongoing Muslim massacres of Christians in Uganda and the Sudan and much more. As for safely returning hostages, according to the sources I've seen (which vary widely) that has not been a problem. However, Hamas chose not to return most. I am sure you are aware of that. If not, I suggest you seek out other sources of information. Judge Nap - I've very aware. Glad you're finding more info daily. Each of us is a somebody.
Netenyahu created Hamas, funds it. It was created to provide the murders of their own people to create the hate to destroy Palestine. Israel is expert at False Flag attacks. For those of you who are not 911 Truthers this video is for you, to educate on how the world got in this mess, how the agenda started, and who started it to begin with? Who planned and orchstrated the 911 False Flag attack? Christopher Bollyn is the man who knows. The 9/11 Studies Club hosted guest speaker Christopher Bollyn at Portland Community College where he discussed the predicament Americans face with a two-party system in which both try to out-do each other to show support for the massive fraud known as the War on Terror.Bollyn, author of “Solving 9/11: The Deception that Changed the World”, traveled through the Middle East and studied the region's history and languages before earning a degree from the University of California at Santa Cruz with an emphasis on the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Having worked as an independent investigative journalist from 2000-2006, Bollyn spent a great deal of time investigating the events of 9/11. In 2007, after having been attacked by undercover police at his home and forced into exile, he began writing “Solving 9-11”, which is dedicated to explaining what really happened and bringing the events of 9-11 into historical perspective. He stayed at my home when he came to speak at San Diego 911 Truth event. He is a very brave man who is laying low right now. Watch this to understand how very important the 911 False Flag Attack is and how Justice for it must occur :
https://rumble.com/v55jsgn-how-the-world-got-in-this-mess-christopher-bollyn-expert-on-middle-east-who.html
Zionism is the evil not being Jewish. There are many Christian Zionists. Very evil political party. Jewish Voice for Peace denouces Zionism and Eustace Mullins explains how it was started. This is History we have not been told and about how the word ' Nazi' was created: https://rumble.com/v54nwbv-history-you-have-not-been-exposed-to-very-important-and-explains-so-much.html
I spent decades avoiding to even think about that region as I'd always felt ever since I was a small child that Islam is oppression, darkness and horror even without any info about it, I just felt. However, I also learned about an Asheknazi lineage in my month's side when I was a 12-year-old and ever since had cherished the history and archaeology of that region, even being a staunch but eclectic pagan. Later as a young adult, in my early twenties, when I took one year of Social Sciences, I learned about the history of the 'new Christians' and their modern descendants in the Iberian Peninsula but especially in Latin America, Brazil being a special country in this respect due to its greater numbers in so many regions of this big nation.
At the university, in the 80s (I finished two courses on Literature with a teaching license for both and left ofther two unfinished all through that decade, one year being of Social Sciences) the usual leftist brainwashing made me think Israel massacred 'Palestinians' and that kept me away from thinking about it cause I just thought it was a mix of Islamist horror with ultra-orthodox conservatism, both of which loathe my minority, LGBTIQs.
However, when I joined the Resistance to Political Islam in mid 2009, I ran into the obvious fact that Jews in Israel also had to deal with the same problem as Hindus have had for over a thousand years to fight against. Then, at the beginning of 2010, I think it was in April or May, I learned that it was actually Islamic supremacism which had acculturated the whole MENA countries, not to mention Indonesia and Malaysia and that most of the lands in the north of Africa and the Middle East had actually been a mix of local pagans, ancient Jewish communities and the first Christians of history, starting obviously with the Jewish Holy Land, what is now Lebanon and Syria and Iraq, aka the Levant and Mesopotamia.
And I also learned that even Saudi Arabia had thriving ancient Jewish communities with the burgeoning Christians.
Here's a link to one, there might be even others we still don't know about or might even be discovered in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehc7P0MBU54
Learning about how all of that changed, I immediately understood that Jews were actually decolonizing the region from Islamic supremacists' acculturation and spiritual usurpation.
And unlike the surrounding Islamized and Arabized nations of the Levant and Mesopotamia, Israel allows Mandeans, Druze, Samaritans Christians and even Muslims and modern pagans - not to mention the eastern branch of Rom people, the Domaris - to follow their faiths, living with full rights as its citizens, up to the point of letting those Muslims have chairs in their parliament, the Knesset, from which some of them, ungrateful creeps, try to destroy the country from within, like the infamous Haneem Zoabi.
Fortunately, from the same Zoabi family, there also comes the amazing young activist Mohammed Zoabi, a gay vegetarian Muslim who almost got killed by his own family for openly declaring himself a pround Zionist! And so is his blessed mom, the amazing Sarah Zoabi, both Zionist Muslims! They even had to go into hiding for some time for that.
Most people are unaware that over 20% of Israeli citizens are non Jewish. I prefer to not call them 'Arabs' cause many are actually Levantine families who were Arabized and Islamized by the Arab invasions and later by the Ottoman Empire though some are indeed descendants of those migrants from surrounding Arabized countries to work in the Holy Land at the beginning of the 20th Century,
Then I gradually learn about farm sanctuaries, which warmed my heart being a strict vegetarian for the sake of non humans myself, the intactivists, being also a staunch defender of genital integrity as I am, pagans and progressives of all sorts. It was really wholesome to know that only in that tiny land all that diversity could bloom, despite being surrounded by the worst sort of theocratic oppression which is actually even worse than our own dark phase of western civilization in Medieval Europe could be honestly compared to, unless one is a compromized Marxist historian warping the historical facts.
And when I learned the IDF, the Israeli Defense Forces, were the only in the world which actually warned the civilians of the enemy people to evacuate the regions they were forced to bomb due to the terrorists using the civilian infrastructure (even hospitals, schools and mosques), with documental footage corroborating the claims, I realized that all the mental feces the pro-Islamic leftists had been brainwashing us with was just that, hideous lies.
I know humans have flaws, there being good people even among Gazans, but these have to speak in absolute anonymity or get killed by the majority of fanatics who even help the many terrorist groups there to perpetrate their crimes, and their testimonies can be heard in the animation series Whispered in Gaza. I pray for that fringe minority of truly good people there and hope they manage to survive the war the majority of monsters brought upon their people by attacking Israel even more in the tragic date of Oct 7th 2023, the worst in decades but certainly not the only one ever since the modern state was founded and neither before that foundation since massacres against Jews had been perpetrated for almos two millennia in the region, the ones with historical records such as the 1517, 1834 in Hebron and the Safed being more known, as the 1929 in Hebron (and the riots in 1922 which also ended with deaths on both sides when some Jews managed to defend themselves, unlike in the 1929, when too many got massacred).
Here is a 92-year-old hag, a muslimah obviously, bragging about how her parents murdered and looted Jews in that massacre in 1929:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNx6Z9sus1U
The massive majority indeed love to film themselves cheering at the atrocities commited against Israeli civilians and these I confess I have no commiseration whatsoever for. It's a war, one which they started and have openly cheered at every barbarity their terrorists perpetrated on Oct 7th 2023 against Israeli civilians.
By the way, I guess it was yesterday that one of those non Jewish, so-called "Arab"-Israelis, who also happened to be a Muslim supremacist, stabbed two Israeli soldiers in a mall in the country, one of the heroes dying in consequence but fortunately managing to kill the monster before that, so that he didn't get to harm any more innocents in the place.
That ungrateful creature had full citizenship and lived down the same road the soldier he killed lived in, a treacherous neighbor for sure and this should wake up people to the real threat that having such people with this murderous mindset living amongst us actually is.
These traitors to the nation which feeds them are all over the country, plotting to destroy if from within. Now it's the turn of western nations to understand what Israel has always had to cope with, the difference being pro-Islamic leftists (in the majority but also with a few right wingers joining the suicidal bunch) are aiding them to Islamize and acculturate all our nations, whether it's here in my homeland, Brazil, or in Mexico, in Australia or New Zeland,etc, etc,etc.
I love all the learning and searching you have been doing, are committed to doing. I am going to suggest to Merry Mary that she read your comment.
I am horrified by this clear failure to distinguish differences and by the dismissive snd patronizing tones. The first return on a simple search concerning distinction between Muslim and Islamicist was one I found deeply inconsistent with careful world-research I have done to this point. Some see some possible common heritage with the current Israeli rulers as a reason the Saudis seem fine with massacres of Aramaic-speakers. Others think other countries are bribed and have had targeted regime-changes, such as the assassination of Mossedegh (name probably misspelled). Third down in my search was diffen.com/difference/Islam/. I could not see more of the url than I posted here. I may be soon offline if Madam Beryl crashes power where I am. Nonetheless, I wished to share this.
I don't really get your point but I must tell the readers that after almost fifteen years reading, watching videos with testimonies from different MENA countries, especially from ex-Muslims but not only, I'm convinced the majority such countries are either extremely tied to mainstream interpretations of Islam - which do not accept reform towards western values = or actually unabashed ultra-orthodox schools, which, in the case of Islamic supremacism, becomes a real problem since ultra-orthodox Jews don't ever want to convert non Jews, as they think one must be born of matrilineal ancestry to be considered a true Israelite whereas mainstream Muslims think it's their duty to spread Islam.
Once moderate orthodox Muslims get besieged by riots caused by openly supremacist followers of their doctrine, no one will be able to stop them.
Just take, for example, the recent riots in the UK, Canada or the US, where crowds of 'Palestinians' (whatever that word means) with radical leftists supporting them, have attacked the police. I also remember another similar footage from Sweden, where they violently attack the police cars and officers as well.
Jews have become an easy target, not only Zionists, all over the world now exactly because these supremacists are in no way a minority of 'radicals'.
The recent footages of mobs lynching non Muslim minorities, burning their houses and shops in Pakistan are but a glimpse of what has always happened in these regions where Muslims have become a majority, not to mention that Pakistan itself was a creation of Islamic separatism and even Bangladesh did not escape the poisonous fruits of the latter ideology even after splitting from Pakistan.
The same supposed minority of 'radicals' have been trying to split southern Thailand and seem to start problems in Myangmar in that dreadful direction. These 'radicals' certainly have done the same to Sudan and the numbers of tehir victims are counting, as the numbers of Boko Haram and El Shabbab's as well.
I don't see how a supposed minority would make Saudi laws so babaric to date and turn beautiful Persia, an Indo-European culture of the same rank as ancient Greece, to become that hellhole of Islamic pastiche which usurped the true Indo-Iranian identity of whole tribes of the Iranian branch, Kurds included.
I can't see how a supposed 'minority' of radicals has turned the lives of thousands of Yazidis into hell for centuries and the same for the Hindu victims in that subcontinent. Oh, Hindus can tell of the huge numbers in the massacres that supposed 'minority' of radical Muslims has inflicted on them, and counting too.
The north of Africa had the Amazighs fighting for their cultures and people, Dihya gave her life to fight them till she got killed by that same 'minority' of radicals invading all the north of that continent, from which, by the way, even a Catholic saint stemmed:
https://amazighworldnews.com/film-saint-augustine-of-hippo-the-greatest-amazigh-saint-of-the-roman-empire/
Or Coptic Christianity in Egypt, which inherited all the glory of the Hellenistic and Roman periods.
Even Saudi Arabia had once been a thriving multicultural society in which native pagans coexited relatively peacefully with one of the first Christian communities outside the Levant and Mesopotamia, together with their ancient Jewish communities, Medina itself being a very Jewish center.
Aramaic dialects were spoken from the south regions in what is now Israel and Gaza to what is now Iraq, but Islamic invasions gradually turned them into enclaves in their own lands.
Of course Pan-Arabists will try to argue that the Arabization had already started with the Christian Ghassanids but I sincerely doubt that which I deem a blatant fallacy cause Aramaic was held dearly and sacred even by Christians, having actually influenced the Koran and no Christian would ever leave their Aramaic treasures which they associated as the language of Yeshuah ben Yossef, aka Jesus, even though the dialect he spoke was actually Aramaic.
In practice, they knew they were all dialects of the same and one language which for them had become a symbol of Christianity itself as their lord has spoken it! Nowadays, scholars are more prone to admit Jesus, as most Levantines, spoke several languages, as they had to deal with the Roman invaders and certainly many had knowledge of Greek too.
The Jewish sects of Ebionites seem to have survived with the help of Greek speaking Jews up to the fourth century CE, when the Graeco-Roman churches finally smashed them with their deplorable persecution.
I know religious persecutions have always existed but it's not about tehological discussions about Islam, that is quite another realm of the fight against Islamic supremacism in my opinion.
In my opinion, what truly matters is the obvious fact that most Islamic countries have shaped their laws - and perhaps even worse: the mindset of their masses - on the most reactionary values, the worst interpretations of their faith, the corroboration of which are the facts attested by many pieces of documental footage and testimony of survivors when one really gives a voice to their victims past and present, instead of lapping up the whitewashed version of Islamic history.
It's a pleasure reading your knowledgeable reply. You know so much. Knowledge - a solid foundation.