There has been an exchange between a reader and myself about what Germans and Austrians did or didn’t know, during the war, about the concentration camps.
We have lots of ways of knowing quite a bit. Not everything, but quire a bit. Instead, very often, for example, accounts of ordinary citizens have been swept away. Also we do have access to the what citizens were told on the news. More indication of what was public "knowledge."
As for what gets you into trouble - it can be just about anything.
I would think the answer to? whether Germans or Austrians knew is not blank or white. There were people who knew, and others who didn't. Some were probably in denial.
The same goes on now. I have friends here in the US who have no idea of the hate towards Jews. They live in their world, happy, naive. There are others who do. Jews, and others, who are passive, don't want to speak out out of fear, abs others who are the haters.
Exactly. The percentages count too. What percentage knew, at least somewhat? What percentage had almost no chance of knowing? My father knew that the one Jewish family in his village was taken into custody. How go from that to even imagining the existence of death camps? Now in many places the majority will not accept that the injections have more risks than benefits - despite enormous evidence all around.
I lost family to the concentration camps during the 2nd WW. They vanished, but regardless of whether or not a large number of people knew there were death camps, or knew thousands were being shot and dumped in mass graves, we cannot keep blaming an entire 'People'; especially now that most of those who may have known are very old, or dead and gone...to keep divisions going is one of our stupidities...divide and rule has been used for eons (keeps working very well) by those who desire to have more and more for themselves, and it is about time we, alive today, opened our eyes to the constant stirring being done by those who profit from war and hate...the current devastation in the middle east is a fine example of this...Us and Them...pawns being used since the British and bankers (robber barons...lets call them what they really are, not the minions, the ones at the top) decided on creating the state of Israel using those pawns...the Russian and European Jewish pogrom sufferers, in order to keep control of an oil rich area...there is oil off the coast of Israel.
It is about time we pointed fingers at the manipulators of our species, those who's only seeming desires are power, control and wealth no matter the amount of pain, damage to environment and general misery their Mental Disease is causing the entire world...they are damaged human beings, needing some serious therapy, but they are few.
If WE the majority of humanity do not start taking responsibility for the hate we allow ourselves to feel, for religious differences we waste our time fighting about, in what our pension monies are invested, for the industries in which we work; if we continue passing the buck to those we call our leaders, without keeping our eyes WIDE OPEN and directing them as to where they are leading us, we and the entirety of life on earth will suffer more and more devastation, control of what we can or cannot do, and any other desirable stupidity into which these leaders are willing to take us...there is too much collusion between corporations and governments...Mussolini called that Fascism! This is what we need to see...NOT to caste more blame and create more division, but to put a stop to these stupidities and consciously chose a path that nurtures life instead of destroying so much.
We have brains, time to start using them, to stop thinking that what we want is impossible....Where Attention Goes Energy Flows...It's very simple...bankers put all their attention on making money for themselves...WE can put all our attention into creating a joyful, nurturing, adventurous, intelligently creative world for Ourselves and All Life on Earth, using non destructive technology, useful in making life easier and so on...the positive possibilities are endless if we but care to imagine them and then take the actions needed to make them come into being. United We Stand Divided We Fall.
Yes we need to unite - around exploring and accepting facts - we need to be able to endure the truth - painful to recognize the betrayal, the ways we have been betrayed. TRUTH. FACTS. So important. This does not negate any single death, any single injustice - and also affirms the injustice of denigrating an entire people, shaming a people deliberately, know one is spreading unjustified vilification and shame. This is huge stuff. I wish my father were here to see this.
This whole Israeli/Palestine debacle I believe is a purposeful distraction (no matter the misery caused) from the many new laws being quietly passed by various governments. censorship masquerading as safety for children on the Internet, the chicaneries being hoped for by the W.H.O. with their (accepted) amendments to the IHR of which the public know nothing and the proposed PPPR (i think that's what they're now calling the pandemic treaty) again very few know what's going on there...the continued installation of millions of wi-fi masts all over the planet, despite many (quietened voices) stating the dangers to life of these frequencies, the United Nations 2030 Agenda, again, hardly any mention in the MSM...have I forgotten anything? Oh! Yes! All those trails in the sky that we never used to see thirty and more years ago...what's going on there? 'Dimming the sun' a la Gates???
'We need a good war in about which people can take sides and get angry at each other, the one in Ukraine has served it's purpose'; devastating the country and preparing it for it's new 'Smart City' future, all apparently planned, though about that I have no proof. When all else has failed, there's nothing like a good war...brings in massive profits for the arms salesmen and women and tax revenue for governments, etc., besides taking the heat away from the Pharma industry and it's investors, because they didn't do quite as well with covid as they anticipated, even though they successfully destroyed so many small businesses with the lockdowns, and put more people into poverty than ever, whilst enriching themselves by trillions of dollars and, having created the problems will want to come forwards with how great the 'great reset' they envision will be for us all, where we'll 'own nothing and be happy' so some of them say. No ways!! distractions everywhere...we need to be on our toes...peacefully!
I agree, but I also have a fanciful mind, and often wonder if what we are experiencing is a dance of possibilities with no real good or evil, simply imbalances and the possibility of balance...Years ago as a teenager, I learned that if one splits an atom, any atom of anything, one gets a release of energy manifesting as light, having not been brought up religiously, but receiving smatterings of Christianity, I adopted a bit I approved of...'do unto others'...etc. because it made sense; then upon learning about atoms, I remembered that the bible says God is within, God is all, God is light and I thought...If the Energy in atoms pervades all atoms and therefore all life, rocks, animals air...whatever, then what the bible said about God being All , and Within, and Light, suddenly made perfect sense to me...I thought maybe this Energy is God? It appears to have infinite intelligence, being able to manifest in infinite ways, slowly I came to the conclusion that yes, energy is the creative force, and it is busy manifesting itself in infinitely various ways. The bible says we are made in Gods image...that's one I haven't yet deciphered, maybe it's a bad translation?
I didn't particularly like the word God when I was younger, because it conjured up a vision of an old man up in the sky seeingand knowing all we think, all we do, judging and punishing.
Having through my life read many descriptions of other religions, I realised that their 'Holy' men said much the same things and that dogma had twisted many of their concepts so much so they were almost unrecognisable at street level, so to speak, so I decided that religion was not for me, but yes, spirituality was fine, and I call my God, Infinite Spirit...which I've come to realise is a bit of semantics, but it suits me fine and I have no trouble with the word God these days...to continue with where I'm going I'll add two more Jesus sayings..."Ye are as Gods, yet ye know it not' and 'Know Thyself'...Time to find out, isn't it? What are we waiting for? The new 'saviours', will be ourselves maturing at last into responsible adults. we've done enough damage during our wild teenage years. It really is time to look at the possibility of Heaven on Earth, and if not heaven, then at least doing no more harm to what gives us life and learning to dance in balance with all that is around us.
What is your point or proof here? I'm not being antagonistic, just wanting to point out that you seem to IMPLY much more than you say.
Nobody denies that Auschwitz Birkenau had 4 crematoria. So what you say is no news to anybody with the least bit of knowledge of the issue.
The whole point is: what exactly happened in them? And why were they there?
Answer: The labour camp of Auschwitz Birkenau was located on marshy land, with water coming up already at a few metres digging. There was a typhus epidemic raging in the camp, and obviously, there must have been quite some deaths of exhaustion, seeing that this was a labour camp. Digging mass-graves was clearly not an option: the pit would have become a pond, and dumping hundreds of rotting corpses into a groundwater pond would over time completely poison the aquifer and the camp's water supply. Therefore crematoria were needed that could deal with the disposal of several dozen bodies a day.
Now if this logical explanation is somehow not what happened, then it is needed to provide proof for any claim that is made. Just saying: "Oh, everybody knows that millions of gassed bodies were burned there" is NOT proof. Having an uncle who had relatives who probably died there is not proof of any gas chambers: who made the claim they died of cyanide gas poisoning, and based on what evidence?
The biggest crematoria, numbers 3 and 4, were found destroyed. We don't know who destroyed them or why, as the camp was liberated by the Soviets, and to my knowledge, up until today, they did not release the information about the status they found the camp in. We do know that they tampered with the Auschwitz proper camp, and that they built a chimney next to its crematorium. This chimney does not show up on pictures of before the liberation, and is also not attached to anything: it is a brick square hollow tower that stands alone and has no connection to any oven or even building. However, in spite of being a meaningless brick tower unrelated to the Nazi history of the camp, it has become iconic, as this is the crematorium that is being showed off today with the spaces claimed to be the "gas chamber", which is not even a shower room. All of this information is known and uncontested, but suppressed, so that we don't get to ask logical, simple, common sense questions about what exactly is being shown to millions of people who visit Auschwitz, and first get about an hour of emotional indoctrination before they actually get to see the absurdities of the "gas chamber" and "crematorium".
Btw, all the pictures of emaciated inmates of liberated "death camps" are from the WESTERN camps, liberated by the Western Allied forces. If you search for pictures of the liberation of Auschwitz, you will see only well-fed inmates. This is because of the allied bombings of the western part of Nazi Germany, which made all logistic routes collapse and had the camps abandoned and deprived of all supplies. Note that these camps are since decades no longer claimed to be death camps. But the pictures of the results of the famines and epidemics in these abandoned camps (with mountains of dead bodies pushed into mass graves), even though they are all from the Western camps, they are still used to spread the narrative of "death camps", which did not provide such horrible footage.
Just look a bit deeper than just the surface. Loads to uncover of how we're brainwashed into believing that what we see is not what we see.
Can you please explain what is divisive about putting facts on the table? I can't see how we will ever unite if it is not around facts that we all agree are incontestable. Uniting around belief systems is what cults do. And our global society is one humongous cult kept together by the (false) belief that individual human beings are voracious predators ready to kill each other any second, while our governments are benevolent enlightened institutions that are needed to keep the first belief from becoming reality.
Real unity can in my opinion only come from the deep understanding that we are all human and have as our most basic trait of this humanity the capacity to feel empathy: to be able to love people even if I don't know them. Unfortunately, the facts of this global society have led me to understand that there are some people on this planet who either were born without this capacity, or have actually decided that this capacity is a weakness that they need to cut out of themselves. Such people, not being able to feel love or empathy, are therefore psychologically sick in the most fundamental department: they are psychopaths. And these people have, logically, abused the empathy of the masses against the masses, as the empaths were not conscious or aware of the fact that psychopaths were also part of this human experiment, and that they would use their insights in our psychology against us.
From what I can see, unless we can see who we are and understand the spiritual truth of our divinity and our capacity to love each other, and unless we see that our global society was created to exactly prevent us from seeing and experiencing this, meaning they have made us believe that reality is the exact opposite of what it really is, with an amount of lies that beggars belief and therefore indeed keeps the lies believed by many if not most, well, until that happens, no unifying will mean anything, because we will not even be able to have a united understanding of our societal reality.
And exposing every lie and hoax, whether it is covid or 9/11 or the moon landing or the gas chambers, every bit helps. And since the emotions around the holohaux are astronomical, it's clear that something there is very important to uncover.
If there are real facts that establish an event of having happened, facts that everybody can verify and for which there is ample and consistent proof, there generally is no debate about "what really happened". Then there is unity. But when fake narratives are pumped out 24/7, and people who point out that the narrative does not concur with the facts are being slandered and labelled instead of debated, then there is division. That division is NOT created by the truth-seekers.
I agree with you on all the points you make...we have been and are being grandly hoodwinked, one of the tools being used is to create continuous divisions and it is in that spirit that I exclaimed as I did. If you come across any of my many comments and also my posts, you will see I'm on the same page as you.
I lost family in the 2nd. WW they were Jewish and shipped to Auschwitz. My mother experienced pretty bad anti-semitism at school. She watched the rise of Hitler and managed to persuade her immediate family to leave Germany in 1935. The rest perished, by whatever means, in the camps, for which I see no excuse whatsoever, such cruel treatment of ones fellow humans is insane and unjust. It's a much longer story, and it has sadness to it. My mom hated the Germans and refused to teach us her language, which as time went by she regretted. I refuse, have always refused to hate the German people, how on earth can one blame an entire people for what their politicians and war mongers do? I've always thought we cannot trust politicians...something my mom taught me and what that concept led to, in my mind, is the need to take responsibility for what one does in ones own life, as everything has a knock on effect. I could go on and on, but have to do other things too.
Blessings to you and may we all carry on upwards in vibration.
I deeply appreciate your reply. What a beautiful answer, thank you!
Let me immediately state that I see absolutely no reason to deny that immense suffering was brought upon huge masses of people. The deportation of the European Jews is a humongous crime, and the immense suffering it gave was very real. That suffering is part of the picture, and a fact on the table.
I know. That does not prove, for instance, that people in Vienna knew of them, or people in the Alps, or people in Bremen (I believe that's the name of a harbor city). That does not prove how many people died in them. That proves only what it proves.
I have known a number of Holocaust survivors, including a long-time neighbor, and the parents of 2 friends. Again that does not prove, for instance, that people in Vienna knew of the camps, or people in the Alps, or people in Bremen. That does not prove how many people died in them. That proves only what it proves.
Here is a comment from a reader. He has given me permission to post it (with no name):
I write regarding your recent email: 'balanced reporting' (BBC style!) of the Rhine Meadows Camps following your preceding email which highlighted the film 'Other Losses'.
I am neither a scholar nor an historian but I did spend a lot of time 'researching/investigating' - looking for - the truth of the all-pervading 20th century [Western] history narrative. Although I did not come across Bacque's film I did come to know of the Rhine Meadows Camps.
Bacque tells the story broadly as I know it ... from the internet!
I thank God that the hit piece video by the court historian was short. Surely no one is taken in by his shilling?
This link https://x22report.com/aiovg_videos/harley-schlanger-soros-global-bankers-are-attempting-to-destroy-nationalism-patriots-are-rising-up/ is to a recent (in the last few days) interview with Harley Schlanger of The LaRouche Organisation. Harley now lives in Germany. Please listen for a couple of minutes from the four minute mark. Harley says (in passing) that the Germans were subjected to a psychological operation by the Allies post WWII to eradicate any sense of national pride in the German people. You may know this already. The information hardly comes as a surprise.
In fact, there's no reason to suppose the psychological operation has ended or that such post WWII psychological operations were limited to Germany. On the contrary, there is every reason to suspect that post WWII psychological operations were broader in scope from the outset and continue to this day. The Rhine Meadows Camps hit-piece would appear to confirm the suspicion.
The court historian states that there was no German government after the war. This is factually incorrect. If there is any doubt that this 'historian' is other than a fully paid up member of the dis-information machine, this error alone gives the game away, At the very least, he has failed to check the evidence - the most basic of facts.
This link http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p305_Thompson.html is to a lengthy essay from the late nineteen eighties which you may be disincline to read in full but it's salient point is made without undue delay. I'll summarise (and perhaps to pique your curiosity): Adolf Hitler's final act as German's Chancellor was to appoint a successor - Grand Admiral Karl Donitz. Donitz immediately set about forming a government.
Governments do not lose wars, armies lose wars and governments govern according to the prevailing circumstances. The Donitz government negotiated the surrender of the German forces to the Allied powers. Soon thereafter, the entire Donitz government was kidnapped by the Americans, at which point US, Britain, France and USSR became a government in occupation. This occupation persists to this day - Germany is not a sovereign nation state. Today, and since the dissolution of USSR, Germany is occupied by US, Britain and France.
I hope you find this information helpful!
I DID FIND IT HELPFUL!! I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT!
Yes, the British power structure was apparently very scared as they watched the small Principalities unite under Prussian rule that made up what we now call Germany; watching them become industrially stronger...not something the British and their banker friends apparently wanted to have continue.
It has become known that bankers and certain large US industries (and probably a few others) actually supported Hitler, financially and technologically...not very patriotic of them...but it shows us how the profiteers of war have no loyalties to other than their own agendas...we need to be aware.
I just recently learned that we knew about Pearl Harbor attack before it happened & did nothing to stop it .. trying to educate others around me to that fact is astonishingly difficult
So... I’m open to learning, but I know what my Uncle & his family experienced in Poland. I have the letters from back then 😢... either way .. they were dead ☠️, along with so many others.
I also have family on my paternal side that lived in Germany during that time ... I’ve tried not to pick that scab 😵💫
I don’t know about those countries but my Uncle was a survivor from Poland. The only reason he survived was because a Polish family took him in & raised him as a relative.
He was already in a camp. I can’t imagine what his sister & her Polish friend had to do to get him escaped out ... his sister & mother did NOT survive the gas ...
So thank god for this polish family & guard who were fully aware of what was happening and were at least able to help him 🙏
That I know something doesn't mean you know something. Then, most of the camps were in Poland - so people close by would be much more likely to know that something was happening than people off in Germany or Austria.
Elsa, you really rise in my esteem, as you are nearing the most difficult topic of our time: the holohoax. I by far do not know everything there is to know about the reality of the Second World War, but what I've learned so far has shown me that about everything we were told is false or misrepresentation.
Let me immediately say that I have no sympathies for Hitler or Nazi Germany. I can't say how I would have lived through it, but from my "against the stream" attitude in my whole life, I hope I would have seen through the narratives and the brainwashing. I anyway don't feel elated when seeing large masses with arms up or huge swastika banners everywhere. I am very suspicious of all forms of fascism and forced herd behaviour, no matter what good intentions people may profess for the need of it.
This being said, the truth is the truth, and what happened to Dresden and at the Rhine Fields were atrocious, monstrous crimes against humanity, and the Nazis were not the perpetrators of these horrors.
Equally, if the gas chambers never existed, then that also needs to be acknowledged: we need the truth about what happened, and not some extra black paint to make them worse than they were. If they were NOT that much different from all the other evil people we see act in our world, then the false claim that they were might only make us accept the presently committed horrors more easily.
I am Belgian, and I had never heard (and neither had my parents (my father is 95) or anybody else I asked) about the "Belgian babies on bayonets", apparently one of the main atrocity propaganda stories of the First World War, used to rouse Europeans and the US to emotionally cry out against the Germans and support the war against Prussia.
The reason why we have no "Bayoneted Babies Memorials" or "Bayoneted Babies Museums" is because AFTER the war, the whole story was quickly debunked as having been nonsense, invented to whip up hatred and to justify the demonisation and de-humanisation of the Germans.
The story of the holocaust was for me a simple "fact" that I never questioned, why would I? It wasn't until some five years ago, when in the "spiritual" community in South India where I live, the issue was suddenly prominently at the centre of everyone's attention, as an Indian resident had gone to the police to complain about physical assault by a French guy who had pushed him after a little verbal row, with the French guy denigrating the Indian as he was a known "holocaust denier". The level of the discussion about this incident was as unspiritual as it gets, and the emotional pressure to not even talk about these things because it hurt the feelings of too many Jewish or Israeli residents rubbed me the wrong way. If WE here, who were supposed aspire for higher behaviour, for a higher life, and had come here to live completely differently from "outside", if WE were not even allowed to ask questions or calmly discuss the facts of the "holocaust", then what on earth did I join this place for?
I wanted to go to the bottom of the matter: how difficult could it be to either prove or not prove that six million Jews had been gassed or otherwise exterminated? It was either a proven fact, or it wasn't. THAT much we should be allowed to establish and look into, no?
I started by searching online for two – in my opinion simple – questions: how many Jews had perished in the Second World War, and how many had survived.
Logic and rationality bring us to expect that the first question is hard to answer: a lot more may have happened than we can prove, and war is an extremely foggy affair; but then again: one needs to have clear and valid circumstantial evidence for a decent claim to be made. The second question should be the easiest in the world though: we all know that holocaust survivors receive compensation, and with the whole extremely sympathetic climate after the war and the creation of Israel and everything, all survivors, or at least a number nearing totality, would have come forward and claimed reparations.
To my utter surprise, the opposite was the case. the number of "exterminated" Jews was claimed to be fixed at close to 6 million, because the methodical and insensitive Germans had meticulously kept records of who all they had gassed and killed. We are supposed to take that at face value, with no German records being shown as proof.
But the question of the survivors was claimed to be a great mystery. How could we know? So many people had been spread out everywhere, who could start counting, and why would anybody be interested?
My suspicion was greatly activated by this total illogical weirdness, and I started to look deeper. What I found shocked me to the core. I was relieved that it had not only not happened, but that it was physically impossible to have happened. But the sheer brazenness and absurdity of the lies that make up the holocaust narrative knocked me off my feet for three weeks. I couldn't believe that people could be so evil as to maintain such insane, totally irrational claims for all these decades, and profit from abuse of the sympathy and gullibility of millions if not billions of people. I felt I had been tricked in agreeing to witch-burnings: the claims were not more sophisticated than "she copulated with the Devil, your honour! I saw it with my own eyes!"
I learned that we have been fed quite a lot of atrocity propaganda in our own lifetimes, recently with the "40 beheaded babies" in Palestine, with "Putin's theft of the Ukrainian children", with "Assad's chemical attacks on his own people", with “viagra for rapists”, with "Saddam's WMDs" and with the "babies from the incubators" nonsense to start the first Gulf War. The latter was especially idiotic, as it was no lesser person than the daughter of Kuwait's ambassador to the US who lied that she was a young nurse from a Kuwaiti hospital: the fact that she spoke perfect American English and had to be a known person to many people in the US, shows how stupid and blatant such atrocity propaganda generally is. AND STILL, IT WORKS. Because the media shove it down the throats of millions upon millions of good-willing people, and dissent or the truth is being blocked from being publicised.
The atrocity stories during the Second World War were no different, and included all kinds of nonsense, like "soap from Jewish bodies" and "lamp shades from Jew skin". Also "gassing by sucking all the air out of a building", i.e. creating apparently a vacuum inside a wooden or brick building, which obviously is completely absurd as the building would collapse.
The gas chamber stories were of the exact same credibility level, and probably almost nobody except the most willing took them serious during the war itself. The numbers of people claimed to have been killed, with exactly ZERO evidence in bodies or even ashes (let alone counting how much time the complete, full burning of millions of bodies would take), were absurd to every sane person.
However, the Zionist agenda – already created much longer ago, and not working out very well, in spite of the collaboration with Hitler (Jews unwanted in Germany; Jews wanted in Palestine: everybody (except the deported Jews) happy!) – combined with the prophesy that 6 million should perish before the temple could be rebuilt, combined with the interests of the US and the USSR and other nations to stigmatise Germany and the Germans with "the crime of all crimes", suddenly created a situation in which the atrocity propaganda hoax was of extreme utility to too many "winners": they decided to not debunk this myth (which almost nobody believed anymore in the 50s) but keep it alive and see how much political yarn could be spun from it.
(total comment was too long, therefore continued in reply below)
during the German occupation in Holland it was compulsory for men to report for work in Germany - the hated Arbeitseinsatz. many had to hide or carry a fake sick-pass; many were deported; many did not return after the war. we are told that many in the camps did not survive because "they were gassed" - however, we don't know this. we're being told that they were and can't corroborate, because serious, objective research is still not possible. how did they die? we don't know! Dutch aristocrat R.J.E. Schimmelpenninck sat on the board of IG Farben, while IG Farben ran the numerous Auschwitz camps: it needed an unlimited supply of unpaid labour for its weapons factories and test subjects for its chemical research and bioweapons programme - https://www.globalresearch.ca/auschwitz-tthe-role-of-ig-farben-bayer/5526720
@ Julie Spatzier: Why would I believe it? Because you say so and because many believe it? Truth has nothing to do with that: it's about FACTS. So please read the second part of my comment and give the facts you have that prove me wrong. I'm very open to change my mind if there is proof. So far I've seen none, and only the contrary: loads of blatantly idiotic narrative that comes with astronomical amounts of emotional blackmail and emotional diversion.
It was clear that almost all of the European Jews had either fled or were deported and separated, but what was less clear was that almost all of them had changed their names, and that they had been told by their Zionist overlords that "all of their family members had perished". (And with the typhus epidemic in several camps, many HAD also died, but not millions.) Most of them took this lie for harsh truth, and if they still tried to find lost family members, it was actively obstructed, and the name-changes that were highly recommended by the Zionists, made it almost impossible to figure out where surviving family members would be. The circumstances of deportation and an immense chaos after the war created the perfect setting for a perfect crime. Thus: everybody believed that all others were dead. The numbers of survivors never made the six million claim believable, as we end up with way more people than had been present in Europe before the war. But pointing such things out was obviously taboo, and victimisation was anyway already deeply ingrained into the Jewish people.
Needless to say how much the creation of Israel in 1948 hinged on the belief in the "gas chambers" and the "six million". Even 80 years later, the lie still keeps on giving and our global society has only just recently begun to correct the results that this belief had produced. Germany and Japan are presently nations who have sold their souls to the US: they hardly have any culture of their own left (Japanese "manga" portrays Japanese as caucasian), and their territories might as well be included in the list of the US states. Equally, all Western European countries have puppet regimes that act purely upon the wishes of Washington and have no real autonomy. (E.g. the nuclear bombs in Kleine Brogel in Belgium, against which the population demonstrated in humongous numbers in the early 80s, with small yearly protests ever since, and which were never officially acknowledged by ANY Belgian government or Prime Minister, no matter what party or where on the political spectrum they came from – and there's been any colour in the 40+ years since. They were dictated by Washington, and the Belgian population had and has no right whatsoever to refuse the nuclear warheads being stored in their own country.)
But shortly after the war, the hyped-up emotions and the war hysteria ebbed away, the process of sobering up began, and normal, rational interest in the facts revealed that quite a few things claimed and accepted as fact in the Nüremberg Tribunals were shown and accepted to have been falsehoods, produced in the heat of the war and for political reasons that no longer seemed valid. (The so highly acclaimed Nüremberg Tribunals were nothing but kangaroo courts, everyone who is interested can look into that for themselves: the terms the court was created on were scandalous, openly 100% biased, and completely unjust: it was a pure revenge-affair, where "truth" was the last thing anybody was interested in.)
The ridiculousness of the claimed shrunken Jew heads, the soaps, the lampshades, but also, the fact that the concentration camps on the Western side of the Iron Curtain had nothing that could be scientifically shown to have been "gas chambers", made the atrocity picture change quite effectively.
Little by little, all of the "death camps" disappeared behind the Iron Curtain, safely tucked away where Western curiosity and thirst for facts could less easily access them.
Dachau, up until around the year 2000, had a sign up with the a full-on insult to intelligence: "Gas chamber, disguised as a shower room (never used as a gas chamber)". With the rise of the internet, it became so often ridiculed that the Dachau museum decided to quietly remove it.
By the end of the 60s, questions about the reality of the so-called "holocaust" rose, and several books were published that studied the question in-depth. Churchill, Roosevelt and De Gaulle had all published very extensive war memoirs, and NONE of these volumes so much as mentioned "gas chambers" or the gassing of Jews, not even "extermination camps".
Zionism had to react, and several publications came out to keep the emotional mill running and to keep people from asking rational, scientific questions. Stuff was kept in check for some time, but the question about the truth of the matter periodically came to the surface and refused to completely die out.
The fall of the USSR and the Iron Curtain was a nightmare for Zionism. Suddenly, access to all the death-camps (or the fields they were claimed to have existed on) and to their records would be available to the Western scholars and interested people who after all this time just wanted to know the truth of it all, and see the places for the themselves. The complete absence of all proof would be revealed, and fast, decisive and extremely expensive action was undertaken to make sure the damage would be minimised. More emotional books, memorials, museums, even curricula for all schools and all ages that HAD to include the holocaust flooded Western society, and finally, because all else failed and too much truth was being published, the last resort was pushed through: the unbelievable-but-true outlawing of public voicing or discussing of DOUBT in the Zionist narrative. An opinion, a discussion, as far as I know the first in our times, was being CRIMINALISED.
And the TV channels were flooded with movies and docu-series about the "Shoah", capitalising on the popularity of Steven Spielberg, among others. The emotional blackmail went into overdrive, in a desperate attempt to keep the truth under wraps.
The Zündel trials had done great harm and revealed that there were no scientific facts to corroborate the hoax, and in spite of everything – or maybe because of the avalanche of emotional pressure? – researchers kept digging into the matter. Very quietly, the claimed death-toll of the Auschwitz Birkenau camp had been lowered from 4 million to 1.5 million: a whole 2.5 million less, almost half of the claimed 6 million – a figure that strangely enough remained untouched!
In spite of all rationality and science, the Zionists however, so far, won the battle and managed to silence, ruin, slander, outcast, break or jail every person daring to do SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH into the gas chambers.
There's loads and loads more that is totally false about what we're being told about WWII. It's such a "Mother of All Hoaxes", that it takes a lifetime to really get to the bottom of it all.
The social pressure is obviously at the same level, and almost nobody in the "truther community" or however we would call it – alternative media, independent media, truth tellers – is willing to risk their reputation and often their livelihood or even life by touching this Hottest of All Potatoes.
Thank you for having the courage to start scratching the surface of the WWII propaganda bs.
Oh: and of course the Germans couldn't have known what didn't happen. But WE, with our internet and social media, cannot claim we don't know what is happening in the world, and all the atrocities that ARE being perpetrated in our name.
But we too, we 'truthers' need to practice strong discernment when reading what people have written about the 2nd WW, what is being 'revealed' as 'truth' about it, just as we need to discern with great care the truths or lies being constantly perpetrated, about current events, all the more effectively now that we have the internet. Many hurdles.
The codoh website has a library of books free for download that will take you years to get through. It's detailed scientific research into the facts of the camps and the claims made about them. It's mind blowing.
In my case, I have known many Holocaust survivors - including a long-time neighbor across the street, plus many others, including the parents of 2 friends, one in Canada and one in Israel. That means that not only did these people survive the horrors of the camps, but what they remember is part of the record of what happened.
As for how many died, from my explorations, 70% of German Jews managed to escape - including a family friend, Mr Stein, who was a soldier on the German side in World War I, and was the only member of his family who escaped the killings. There was no money for his parents to leave, go to Shanghai. He said China was the only country which welcomed Jews - but it was far away, and expensive to get to.
German Jews (who I believe made up .7% of the German population before World War II) had 6 years to do their best to find a place to go - not so easy as, for example, the Canadian attitude, during World War II, to taking in Jews was "One is too many." The very few Jews who got into Canada spent the war years in prison.
Jews in Poland, where they made up 10% of the population, had no warning. A very different situation. Likewise Jews in Austria (4% of the population).
So I am all for exploring. I am all for not believing without exploring.
I am also for acknowledging, for example, the firebombing of Dresden and the Rhine Field camps.
I have a long way to go to have a solid understanding of what happened because like you, I long accepted the "narrative."
Note that not accepting the narrative does not mean disregarding evidence that substantiates the narrative.
Anyway, again, this is an exploration I am only basically beginning.
well.... it will take a long while, because up untill now for this particular subject it has been possible only to do it little by little (uphill battle). H* research has been heavily obstructed. next there's the more philosophical question: what is 'truth', and 'is there such a thing as truth?'. famous example: even to come of a precise description of a fairly simple event, such as a traffic accident, with many participants, bystanders and other witnesses, is a serious, if not a sometimes impossible challenge. personally I like to see as many eyewitness accounts as possible, like a caleidoscope of partial, yet real truths. the more the better, and then fine-tuning to the most precise description. we'll see Elsa, I think it's brave to set out on this particular road!
I fully agree: evidence (but real evidence, not just some hearsay) has to be included and acknowledged, no matter what it points at.
My question is: what have survivors SEEN themselves? Or experienced? Because what is clear is that every Jew who lived after 1945 was bombarded a "survivor". Their children, who were not even born during the war, are also "survivors"!
So what exactly did people SEE? LIVE? Gas chambers? I'm very interested to talk to someone who claimed to have seen a gas chamber. Let alone a functioning one.
easier said than done, because of the extreme compartmentalisation. prisoners saw fellow inmates go into the lethal showers (alledgedly Zyclon-B) and "never saw them again", but how realistic is that? de-lousing was a big problem, typhus too, all-over health conditions were abominable. what did they see? indeed....
We're constantly fed the interpretation before we even ourselves had the time to process what actually we saw. We need to get back to the facts: what did you actually SEE? Without any interpretation. I am confident nobody saw gassings.
Btw, the "witness testimonies" of the Nüremberg tribunals all spoke about "blue bodies" after the gassing. This is because cyanide is blue and leaves blue spots on walls, but people who die from cyanide gas poisoning are almost magenta because it does not kill you of oxygen depravation, but of oxygen overdose: it prevents oxygen from leaving the body, blowing up bodies and giving them a very pink hue. The opposite was being told by the "witnesses", proving they were telling stories instead of having seen anything. All the accounts of what supposedly happened with the bodies were wrong, they talk about what we imagine would happen instead of what in reality would happen. Bodies were supposedly pulled out of the rooms by the dozens, while cyanide gas poisoning leaves bodies toxic and oozing the gas for many minutes and even hours, making handling them as dangerous as being part of the alleged "gassing".
It takes courage to ask "inappropriate" questions, and you have it, Elsa.
In my case, I'm only showing that the official line in history simply cannot be true, but I don't pretend to know the truth. Conjecturing shows that the official narrative is, as always, full of lies...
For those in doubt, I recommend sources and links at www.ihr.org
One thing at a time. Wiesel's "eye-witness" account has turned out to have been fabrication in several instances (and his Nobel-Prize-winning "novel" has no literary value, but that's irrelevant, except it substantiates the suspicion that he is a front man):
The whole H* story needs "legal" protection in order to survive. In the last several decades, lies about WW2 have been clearing up at a rate that must be alarming for the liars.
A couple of yrs ago I questioned now a close friend, originally an older colleague, born in 1933, about the end of the war in Bavaria. She said she, and her mother, were shocked to the core to learn of the atrocities in the concentration camps.
THAT IS WHAT MY FATHER ALSO TOLD ME. He was especially devastated to learn that A classmate - a friend - had been killed, along with the whole family. This was personal. I believe his classmate’s name was Ernst.
It is not a matter of fact versus opinion. You can't generalize that 'all Germans knew or should have known'. In a court of law, hearsay in not permissible because it can be misconstrued. If somebody claims they know somebody who claims everybody knew - move on. Don't waste your time on them
Angela, what you say here is very crucial. Together with the "everyone has their truth" cliché that discourages people from searching for facts and even believing that there ARE facts that can be found, the push to blur the lines between facts and opinion was pushed out everywhere.
I became aware of this for the first time in the US presidential election campaign of 2016. The facts about Hillary Clinton and her mythomania about several things were painted by the MSM as "opinions". We got to read articles that spoke emotionally about what Hillary Clinton had meant for women in the US, which totally deflected all discussion about the facts of her lying and her disgusting behaviour as a Secretary of State, and portrayed these facts as "opinions". They focused on "I have a very positive opinion on Hillary, and I will allow nobody to deny me my opinion". That is so devious, so sneaky, we have to be very aware to see how the psychological game is played. Because whether Hillary Clinton gleefully chuckled over the brutal, medieval, barbaric death of Muammar Khadaffi or not is NOT an opinion: it's a fact, that we all can ascertain for ourselves. What we then THINK of Hillary Clinton is for each to decide, but the FACT that she said "We came, we saw, he died" with a huge grin on her face and openly joyful and laughing about it, that is NOT part of that opinion. That is a FACT. But the MSM made everyone believe that acknowledging this fact was "an opinion", and that therefore, it could be discarded and countered with a different opinion. The idea planted in the brains of millions of people was that "my opinion is as good as your fact, because your fact is in fact only an opinion". Now consider at that statement rationally and tell me it is true or false.
It is crucial that we open our eyes for this brainwashing that we are exposed to 24/7, otherwise we are only slaves to the thought masters.
And yes, since we are so immensely brainwashed, we have to crawl out of that labyrinth very carefully, as we can hardly be sure of anything anymore. We therefore need to go to the most basic things we can take for certain: this person said this; that person said that; this is the situation this person was in; that is the situation that person was in; this happened here; that happened there; we have photographic evidence of this; we have only someone's words that here this has happened at such moment; is there anything that corroborates this or is there anything that contradicts it? All these very basic, simple, fundamental questions are our only tool to find our way out of our own indoctrination. And that's what Elsa is attempting. Trying to get as many facts on the table as possible, and see whether they create a coherent picture or not.
It is a fact what my father said, and a fact what the friend said. It does not mean her friend knew what was going on in Germany, which he had left years earlier. It does not mean my father knew what was going on throughout Austria or Germany. It does mean my father knew what was going on around himself, and if he is reliable, that he is accurately reporting on what he knew around himself.
Why bother dealing with this? So many people live disconnected from facts, mix facts and opinions.
And you are not one of them?!? I thought you studied psychology. What your father saw is what your father saw - and presumably told you that he saw (or thought he saw). Ditto the friend. Sometimes people see something, or suspect something, and convince themselves they are not seeing what they are seeing or - for a fleeting moment - suspect they are seeing (especially if it is so monstrous as to be unbelievable). I can accept that the majority of decent, hard working German people did not see, or suspect or know what was going on. That does not make them liars or mixing facts and opinions or disconnected. It just makes them gullible humans. Dennis John McKenna molested dozens of boys at Katanning Boarding School and got away with it because he spent more time grooming an impeccable reputation for himself - which stopped all of the adults (parents, police, doctors, teachers, community members, colleagues) from believing what was staring them in the face (until the number of victims was overwhelming). Even after he was convicted, the local Mayor refused to accept the man she insisted she knew better than anybody else was capable of hoodwinking everybody (including her). What makes you think your father is 100% reliable - why do you trust him? Ask an incest survivor if they think you should trust your own father 100% - or ask the wife of a mass murderer who slept alongside her loving partner every night for 2, 30, 40, 50 years. Then take a look at the photos with Auguste Landmesser arms folded when everybody around him was pledging allegiance to the Nationalist Party. Go to a footy match and watch the contagion of the crowd. And if you are still not 'getting it', then perhaps your substack has been hacked and you are a bot.
Who is to be believed? Good question. You know what you experienced and want to be believed. My father likewise knew what he experienced and wanted to be believed. Why should I believe you and not him? Why should I consider you 100% reliable? I knew my father and his passion for knowing things. He would read the encyclopedia for fun. But again, what makes you give my father less reliability that you, as you seem to assume. I see no reason to believe you any more than my father. But you seem to assume that, when you say you are an incest survivor, you are automatically to be believed - but my father, a war survivor, is not.
There is no way to know what most people knew back when.
The good thing is:
It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble.
We have lots of ways of knowing quite a bit. Not everything, but quire a bit. Instead, very often, for example, accounts of ordinary citizens have been swept away. Also we do have access to the what citizens were told on the news. More indication of what was public "knowledge."
As for what gets you into trouble - it can be just about anything.
It was a quote.
I would think the answer to? whether Germans or Austrians knew is not blank or white. There were people who knew, and others who didn't. Some were probably in denial.
The same goes on now. I have friends here in the US who have no idea of the hate towards Jews. They live in their world, happy, naive. There are others who do. Jews, and others, who are passive, don't want to speak out out of fear, abs others who are the haters.
Exactly. The percentages count too. What percentage knew, at least somewhat? What percentage had almost no chance of knowing? My father knew that the one Jewish family in his village was taken into custody. How go from that to even imagining the existence of death camps? Now in many places the majority will not accept that the injections have more risks than benefits - despite enormous evidence all around.
I lost family to the concentration camps during the 2nd WW. They vanished, but regardless of whether or not a large number of people knew there were death camps, or knew thousands were being shot and dumped in mass graves, we cannot keep blaming an entire 'People'; especially now that most of those who may have known are very old, or dead and gone...to keep divisions going is one of our stupidities...divide and rule has been used for eons (keeps working very well) by those who desire to have more and more for themselves, and it is about time we, alive today, opened our eyes to the constant stirring being done by those who profit from war and hate...the current devastation in the middle east is a fine example of this...Us and Them...pawns being used since the British and bankers (robber barons...lets call them what they really are, not the minions, the ones at the top) decided on creating the state of Israel using those pawns...the Russian and European Jewish pogrom sufferers, in order to keep control of an oil rich area...there is oil off the coast of Israel.
It is about time we pointed fingers at the manipulators of our species, those who's only seeming desires are power, control and wealth no matter the amount of pain, damage to environment and general misery their Mental Disease is causing the entire world...they are damaged human beings, needing some serious therapy, but they are few.
If WE the majority of humanity do not start taking responsibility for the hate we allow ourselves to feel, for religious differences we waste our time fighting about, in what our pension monies are invested, for the industries in which we work; if we continue passing the buck to those we call our leaders, without keeping our eyes WIDE OPEN and directing them as to where they are leading us, we and the entirety of life on earth will suffer more and more devastation, control of what we can or cannot do, and any other desirable stupidity into which these leaders are willing to take us...there is too much collusion between corporations and governments...Mussolini called that Fascism! This is what we need to see...NOT to caste more blame and create more division, but to put a stop to these stupidities and consciously chose a path that nurtures life instead of destroying so much.
We have brains, time to start using them, to stop thinking that what we want is impossible....Where Attention Goes Energy Flows...It's very simple...bankers put all their attention on making money for themselves...WE can put all our attention into creating a joyful, nurturing, adventurous, intelligently creative world for Ourselves and All Life on Earth, using non destructive technology, useful in making life easier and so on...the positive possibilities are endless if we but care to imagine them and then take the actions needed to make them come into being. United We Stand Divided We Fall.
Yes we need to unite - around exploring and accepting facts - we need to be able to endure the truth - painful to recognize the betrayal, the ways we have been betrayed. TRUTH. FACTS. So important. This does not negate any single death, any single injustice - and also affirms the injustice of denigrating an entire people, shaming a people deliberately, know one is spreading unjustified vilification and shame. This is huge stuff. I wish my father were here to see this.
This whole Israeli/Palestine debacle I believe is a purposeful distraction (no matter the misery caused) from the many new laws being quietly passed by various governments. censorship masquerading as safety for children on the Internet, the chicaneries being hoped for by the W.H.O. with their (accepted) amendments to the IHR of which the public know nothing and the proposed PPPR (i think that's what they're now calling the pandemic treaty) again very few know what's going on there...the continued installation of millions of wi-fi masts all over the planet, despite many (quietened voices) stating the dangers to life of these frequencies, the United Nations 2030 Agenda, again, hardly any mention in the MSM...have I forgotten anything? Oh! Yes! All those trails in the sky that we never used to see thirty and more years ago...what's going on there? 'Dimming the sun' a la Gates???
'We need a good war in about which people can take sides and get angry at each other, the one in Ukraine has served it's purpose'; devastating the country and preparing it for it's new 'Smart City' future, all apparently planned, though about that I have no proof. When all else has failed, there's nothing like a good war...brings in massive profits for the arms salesmen and women and tax revenue for governments, etc., besides taking the heat away from the Pharma industry and it's investors, because they didn't do quite as well with covid as they anticipated, even though they successfully destroyed so many small businesses with the lockdowns, and put more people into poverty than ever, whilst enriching themselves by trillions of dollars and, having created the problems will want to come forwards with how great the 'great reset' they envision will be for us all, where we'll 'own nothing and be happy' so some of them say. No ways!! distractions everywhere...we need to be on our toes...peacefully!
I agree. Massive distractions. We need to be focussing on ... what are vulnerabilities. If we get caught in us vs them, the real THEM are the winners.
I agree, but I also have a fanciful mind, and often wonder if what we are experiencing is a dance of possibilities with no real good or evil, simply imbalances and the possibility of balance...Years ago as a teenager, I learned that if one splits an atom, any atom of anything, one gets a release of energy manifesting as light, having not been brought up religiously, but receiving smatterings of Christianity, I adopted a bit I approved of...'do unto others'...etc. because it made sense; then upon learning about atoms, I remembered that the bible says God is within, God is all, God is light and I thought...If the Energy in atoms pervades all atoms and therefore all life, rocks, animals air...whatever, then what the bible said about God being All , and Within, and Light, suddenly made perfect sense to me...I thought maybe this Energy is God? It appears to have infinite intelligence, being able to manifest in infinite ways, slowly I came to the conclusion that yes, energy is the creative force, and it is busy manifesting itself in infinitely various ways. The bible says we are made in Gods image...that's one I haven't yet deciphered, maybe it's a bad translation?
I didn't particularly like the word God when I was younger, because it conjured up a vision of an old man up in the sky seeingand knowing all we think, all we do, judging and punishing.
Having through my life read many descriptions of other religions, I realised that their 'Holy' men said much the same things and that dogma had twisted many of their concepts so much so they were almost unrecognisable at street level, so to speak, so I decided that religion was not for me, but yes, spirituality was fine, and I call my God, Infinite Spirit...which I've come to realise is a bit of semantics, but it suits me fine and I have no trouble with the word God these days...to continue with where I'm going I'll add two more Jesus sayings..."Ye are as Gods, yet ye know it not' and 'Know Thyself'...Time to find out, isn't it? What are we waiting for? The new 'saviours', will be ourselves maturing at last into responsible adults. we've done enough damage during our wild teenage years. It really is time to look at the possibility of Heaven on Earth, and if not heaven, then at least doing no more harm to what gives us life and learning to dance in balance with all that is around us.
There are historical photographs of the camps. I just saw several of the crematoria in Auschwitz.
What is your point or proof here? I'm not being antagonistic, just wanting to point out that you seem to IMPLY much more than you say.
Nobody denies that Auschwitz Birkenau had 4 crematoria. So what you say is no news to anybody with the least bit of knowledge of the issue.
The whole point is: what exactly happened in them? And why were they there?
Answer: The labour camp of Auschwitz Birkenau was located on marshy land, with water coming up already at a few metres digging. There was a typhus epidemic raging in the camp, and obviously, there must have been quite some deaths of exhaustion, seeing that this was a labour camp. Digging mass-graves was clearly not an option: the pit would have become a pond, and dumping hundreds of rotting corpses into a groundwater pond would over time completely poison the aquifer and the camp's water supply. Therefore crematoria were needed that could deal with the disposal of several dozen bodies a day.
Now if this logical explanation is somehow not what happened, then it is needed to provide proof for any claim that is made. Just saying: "Oh, everybody knows that millions of gassed bodies were burned there" is NOT proof. Having an uncle who had relatives who probably died there is not proof of any gas chambers: who made the claim they died of cyanide gas poisoning, and based on what evidence?
The biggest crematoria, numbers 3 and 4, were found destroyed. We don't know who destroyed them or why, as the camp was liberated by the Soviets, and to my knowledge, up until today, they did not release the information about the status they found the camp in. We do know that they tampered with the Auschwitz proper camp, and that they built a chimney next to its crematorium. This chimney does not show up on pictures of before the liberation, and is also not attached to anything: it is a brick square hollow tower that stands alone and has no connection to any oven or even building. However, in spite of being a meaningless brick tower unrelated to the Nazi history of the camp, it has become iconic, as this is the crematorium that is being showed off today with the spaces claimed to be the "gas chamber", which is not even a shower room. All of this information is known and uncontested, but suppressed, so that we don't get to ask logical, simple, common sense questions about what exactly is being shown to millions of people who visit Auschwitz, and first get about an hour of emotional indoctrination before they actually get to see the absurdities of the "gas chamber" and "crematorium".
Btw, all the pictures of emaciated inmates of liberated "death camps" are from the WESTERN camps, liberated by the Western Allied forces. If you search for pictures of the liberation of Auschwitz, you will see only well-fed inmates. This is because of the allied bombings of the western part of Nazi Germany, which made all logistic routes collapse and had the camps abandoned and deprived of all supplies. Note that these camps are since decades no longer claimed to be death camps. But the pictures of the results of the famines and epidemics in these abandoned camps (with mountains of dead bodies pushed into mass graves), even though they are all from the Western camps, they are still used to spread the narrative of "death camps", which did not provide such horrible footage.
Just look a bit deeper than just the surface. Loads to uncover of how we're brainwashed into believing that what we see is not what we see.
YES! DIVIDE AND RULE WORKING AS WELL AS EVER!!!
Can you please explain what is divisive about putting facts on the table? I can't see how we will ever unite if it is not around facts that we all agree are incontestable. Uniting around belief systems is what cults do. And our global society is one humongous cult kept together by the (false) belief that individual human beings are voracious predators ready to kill each other any second, while our governments are benevolent enlightened institutions that are needed to keep the first belief from becoming reality.
Real unity can in my opinion only come from the deep understanding that we are all human and have as our most basic trait of this humanity the capacity to feel empathy: to be able to love people even if I don't know them. Unfortunately, the facts of this global society have led me to understand that there are some people on this planet who either were born without this capacity, or have actually decided that this capacity is a weakness that they need to cut out of themselves. Such people, not being able to feel love or empathy, are therefore psychologically sick in the most fundamental department: they are psychopaths. And these people have, logically, abused the empathy of the masses against the masses, as the empaths were not conscious or aware of the fact that psychopaths were also part of this human experiment, and that they would use their insights in our psychology against us.
From what I can see, unless we can see who we are and understand the spiritual truth of our divinity and our capacity to love each other, and unless we see that our global society was created to exactly prevent us from seeing and experiencing this, meaning they have made us believe that reality is the exact opposite of what it really is, with an amount of lies that beggars belief and therefore indeed keeps the lies believed by many if not most, well, until that happens, no unifying will mean anything, because we will not even be able to have a united understanding of our societal reality.
And exposing every lie and hoax, whether it is covid or 9/11 or the moon landing or the gas chambers, every bit helps. And since the emotions around the holohaux are astronomical, it's clear that something there is very important to uncover.
If there are real facts that establish an event of having happened, facts that everybody can verify and for which there is ample and consistent proof, there generally is no debate about "what really happened". Then there is unity. But when fake narratives are pumped out 24/7, and people who point out that the narrative does not concur with the facts are being slandered and labelled instead of debated, then there is division. That division is NOT created by the truth-seekers.
I agree with you on all the points you make...we have been and are being grandly hoodwinked, one of the tools being used is to create continuous divisions and it is in that spirit that I exclaimed as I did. If you come across any of my many comments and also my posts, you will see I'm on the same page as you.
I lost family in the 2nd. WW they were Jewish and shipped to Auschwitz. My mother experienced pretty bad anti-semitism at school. She watched the rise of Hitler and managed to persuade her immediate family to leave Germany in 1935. The rest perished, by whatever means, in the camps, for which I see no excuse whatsoever, such cruel treatment of ones fellow humans is insane and unjust. It's a much longer story, and it has sadness to it. My mom hated the Germans and refused to teach us her language, which as time went by she regretted. I refuse, have always refused to hate the German people, how on earth can one blame an entire people for what their politicians and war mongers do? I've always thought we cannot trust politicians...something my mom taught me and what that concept led to, in my mind, is the need to take responsibility for what one does in ones own life, as everything has a knock on effect. I could go on and on, but have to do other things too.
Blessings to you and may we all carry on upwards in vibration.
I deeply appreciate your reply. What a beautiful answer, thank you!
Let me immediately state that I see absolutely no reason to deny that immense suffering was brought upon huge masses of people. The deportation of the European Jews is a humongous crime, and the immense suffering it gave was very real. That suffering is part of the picture, and a fact on the table.
Important points. LOOK AT FACTS. That is exactly what those within the "narrative" cannot do.
I know. That does not prove, for instance, that people in Vienna knew of them, or people in the Alps, or people in Bremen (I believe that's the name of a harbor city). That does not prove how many people died in them. That proves only what it proves.
I have known a number of Holocaust survivors, including a long-time neighbor, and the parents of 2 friends. Again that does not prove, for instance, that people in Vienna knew of the camps, or people in the Alps, or people in Bremen. That does not prove how many people died in them. That proves only what it proves.
Here is a comment from a reader. He has given me permission to post it (with no name):
I write regarding your recent email: 'balanced reporting' (BBC style!) of the Rhine Meadows Camps following your preceding email which highlighted the film 'Other Losses'.
I am neither a scholar nor an historian but I did spend a lot of time 'researching/investigating' - looking for - the truth of the all-pervading 20th century [Western] history narrative. Although I did not come across Bacque's film I did come to know of the Rhine Meadows Camps.
Bacque tells the story broadly as I know it ... from the internet!
I thank God that the hit piece video by the court historian was short. Surely no one is taken in by his shilling?
This link https://x22report.com/aiovg_videos/harley-schlanger-soros-global-bankers-are-attempting-to-destroy-nationalism-patriots-are-rising-up/ is to a recent (in the last few days) interview with Harley Schlanger of The LaRouche Organisation. Harley now lives in Germany. Please listen for a couple of minutes from the four minute mark. Harley says (in passing) that the Germans were subjected to a psychological operation by the Allies post WWII to eradicate any sense of national pride in the German people. You may know this already. The information hardly comes as a surprise.
In fact, there's no reason to suppose the psychological operation has ended or that such post WWII psychological operations were limited to Germany. On the contrary, there is every reason to suspect that post WWII psychological operations were broader in scope from the outset and continue to this day. The Rhine Meadows Camps hit-piece would appear to confirm the suspicion.
The court historian states that there was no German government after the war. This is factually incorrect. If there is any doubt that this 'historian' is other than a fully paid up member of the dis-information machine, this error alone gives the game away, At the very least, he has failed to check the evidence - the most basic of facts.
This link http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v04/v04p305_Thompson.html is to a lengthy essay from the late nineteen eighties which you may be disincline to read in full but it's salient point is made without undue delay. I'll summarise (and perhaps to pique your curiosity): Adolf Hitler's final act as German's Chancellor was to appoint a successor - Grand Admiral Karl Donitz. Donitz immediately set about forming a government.
Governments do not lose wars, armies lose wars and governments govern according to the prevailing circumstances. The Donitz government negotiated the surrender of the German forces to the Allied powers. Soon thereafter, the entire Donitz government was kidnapped by the Americans, at which point US, Britain, France and USSR became a government in occupation. This occupation persists to this day - Germany is not a sovereign nation state. Today, and since the dissolution of USSR, Germany is occupied by US, Britain and France.
I hope you find this information helpful!
I DID FIND IT HELPFUL!! I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE IT!
Yes, the British power structure was apparently very scared as they watched the small Principalities unite under Prussian rule that made up what we now call Germany; watching them become industrially stronger...not something the British and their banker friends apparently wanted to have continue.
It has become known that bankers and certain large US industries (and probably a few others) actually supported Hitler, financially and technologically...not very patriotic of them...but it shows us how the profiteers of war have no loyalties to other than their own agendas...we need to be aware.
I just recently learned that we knew about Pearl Harbor attack before it happened & did nothing to stop it .. trying to educate others around me to that fact is astonishingly difficult
So... I’m open to learning, but I know what my Uncle & his family experienced in Poland. I have the letters from back then 😢... either way .. they were dead ☠️, along with so many others.
I also have family on my paternal side that lived in Germany during that time ... I’ve tried not to pick that scab 😵💫
Like you, there's much I'm learning.
I don’t know about those countries but my Uncle was a survivor from Poland. The only reason he survived was because a Polish family took him in & raised him as a relative.
He was already in a camp. I can’t imagine what his sister & her Polish friend had to do to get him escaped out ... his sister & mother did NOT survive the gas ...
So thank god for this polish family & guard who were fully aware of what was happening and were at least able to help him 🙏
That I know something doesn't mean you know something. Then, most of the camps were in Poland - so people close by would be much more likely to know that something was happening than people off in Germany or Austria.
As I stated I was speaking about only his experience in Poland ..
(1/2)
Elsa, you really rise in my esteem, as you are nearing the most difficult topic of our time: the holohoax. I by far do not know everything there is to know about the reality of the Second World War, but what I've learned so far has shown me that about everything we were told is false or misrepresentation.
Let me immediately say that I have no sympathies for Hitler or Nazi Germany. I can't say how I would have lived through it, but from my "against the stream" attitude in my whole life, I hope I would have seen through the narratives and the brainwashing. I anyway don't feel elated when seeing large masses with arms up or huge swastika banners everywhere. I am very suspicious of all forms of fascism and forced herd behaviour, no matter what good intentions people may profess for the need of it.
This being said, the truth is the truth, and what happened to Dresden and at the Rhine Fields were atrocious, monstrous crimes against humanity, and the Nazis were not the perpetrators of these horrors.
Equally, if the gas chambers never existed, then that also needs to be acknowledged: we need the truth about what happened, and not some extra black paint to make them worse than they were. If they were NOT that much different from all the other evil people we see act in our world, then the false claim that they were might only make us accept the presently committed horrors more easily.
I am Belgian, and I had never heard (and neither had my parents (my father is 95) or anybody else I asked) about the "Belgian babies on bayonets", apparently one of the main atrocity propaganda stories of the First World War, used to rouse Europeans and the US to emotionally cry out against the Germans and support the war against Prussia.
The reason why we have no "Bayoneted Babies Memorials" or "Bayoneted Babies Museums" is because AFTER the war, the whole story was quickly debunked as having been nonsense, invented to whip up hatred and to justify the demonisation and de-humanisation of the Germans.
The story of the holocaust was for me a simple "fact" that I never questioned, why would I? It wasn't until some five years ago, when in the "spiritual" community in South India where I live, the issue was suddenly prominently at the centre of everyone's attention, as an Indian resident had gone to the police to complain about physical assault by a French guy who had pushed him after a little verbal row, with the French guy denigrating the Indian as he was a known "holocaust denier". The level of the discussion about this incident was as unspiritual as it gets, and the emotional pressure to not even talk about these things because it hurt the feelings of too many Jewish or Israeli residents rubbed me the wrong way. If WE here, who were supposed aspire for higher behaviour, for a higher life, and had come here to live completely differently from "outside", if WE were not even allowed to ask questions or calmly discuss the facts of the "holocaust", then what on earth did I join this place for?
I wanted to go to the bottom of the matter: how difficult could it be to either prove or not prove that six million Jews had been gassed or otherwise exterminated? It was either a proven fact, or it wasn't. THAT much we should be allowed to establish and look into, no?
I started by searching online for two – in my opinion simple – questions: how many Jews had perished in the Second World War, and how many had survived.
Logic and rationality bring us to expect that the first question is hard to answer: a lot more may have happened than we can prove, and war is an extremely foggy affair; but then again: one needs to have clear and valid circumstantial evidence for a decent claim to be made. The second question should be the easiest in the world though: we all know that holocaust survivors receive compensation, and with the whole extremely sympathetic climate after the war and the creation of Israel and everything, all survivors, or at least a number nearing totality, would have come forward and claimed reparations.
To my utter surprise, the opposite was the case. the number of "exterminated" Jews was claimed to be fixed at close to 6 million, because the methodical and insensitive Germans had meticulously kept records of who all they had gassed and killed. We are supposed to take that at face value, with no German records being shown as proof.
But the question of the survivors was claimed to be a great mystery. How could we know? So many people had been spread out everywhere, who could start counting, and why would anybody be interested?
My suspicion was greatly activated by this total illogical weirdness, and I started to look deeper. What I found shocked me to the core. I was relieved that it had not only not happened, but that it was physically impossible to have happened. But the sheer brazenness and absurdity of the lies that make up the holocaust narrative knocked me off my feet for three weeks. I couldn't believe that people could be so evil as to maintain such insane, totally irrational claims for all these decades, and profit from abuse of the sympathy and gullibility of millions if not billions of people. I felt I had been tricked in agreeing to witch-burnings: the claims were not more sophisticated than "she copulated with the Devil, your honour! I saw it with my own eyes!"
I learned that we have been fed quite a lot of atrocity propaganda in our own lifetimes, recently with the "40 beheaded babies" in Palestine, with "Putin's theft of the Ukrainian children", with "Assad's chemical attacks on his own people", with “viagra for rapists”, with "Saddam's WMDs" and with the "babies from the incubators" nonsense to start the first Gulf War. The latter was especially idiotic, as it was no lesser person than the daughter of Kuwait's ambassador to the US who lied that she was a young nurse from a Kuwaiti hospital: the fact that she spoke perfect American English and had to be a known person to many people in the US, shows how stupid and blatant such atrocity propaganda generally is. AND STILL, IT WORKS. Because the media shove it down the throats of millions upon millions of good-willing people, and dissent or the truth is being blocked from being publicised.
The atrocity stories during the Second World War were no different, and included all kinds of nonsense, like "soap from Jewish bodies" and "lamp shades from Jew skin". Also "gassing by sucking all the air out of a building", i.e. creating apparently a vacuum inside a wooden or brick building, which obviously is completely absurd as the building would collapse.
The gas chamber stories were of the exact same credibility level, and probably almost nobody except the most willing took them serious during the war itself. The numbers of people claimed to have been killed, with exactly ZERO evidence in bodies or even ashes (let alone counting how much time the complete, full burning of millions of bodies would take), were absurd to every sane person.
However, the Zionist agenda – already created much longer ago, and not working out very well, in spite of the collaboration with Hitler (Jews unwanted in Germany; Jews wanted in Palestine: everybody (except the deported Jews) happy!) – combined with the prophesy that 6 million should perish before the temple could be rebuilt, combined with the interests of the US and the USSR and other nations to stigmatise Germany and the Germans with "the crime of all crimes", suddenly created a situation in which the atrocity propaganda hoax was of extreme utility to too many "winners": they decided to not debunk this myth (which almost nobody believed anymore in the 50s) but keep it alive and see how much political yarn could be spun from it.
(total comment was too long, therefore continued in reply below)
I don’t know how many were killed in total, many were not Jewish but what Hitler considered “defective”..,
my Uncle was a survivor of the camps & his mother & sister were gassed in Poland.
I don’t know 🤷♀️ what to say that you don’t believe that happened 😐
during the German occupation in Holland it was compulsory for men to report for work in Germany - the hated Arbeitseinsatz. many had to hide or carry a fake sick-pass; many were deported; many did not return after the war. we are told that many in the camps did not survive because "they were gassed" - however, we don't know this. we're being told that they were and can't corroborate, because serious, objective research is still not possible. how did they die? we don't know! Dutch aristocrat R.J.E. Schimmelpenninck sat on the board of IG Farben, while IG Farben ran the numerous Auschwitz camps: it needed an unlimited supply of unpaid labour for its weapons factories and test subjects for its chemical research and bioweapons programme - https://www.globalresearch.ca/auschwitz-tthe-role-of-ig-farben-bayer/5526720
@ Julie Spatzier: Why would I believe it? Because you say so and because many believe it? Truth has nothing to do with that: it's about FACTS. So please read the second part of my comment and give the facts you have that prove me wrong. I'm very open to change my mind if there is proof. So far I've seen none, and only the contrary: loads of blatantly idiotic narrative that comes with astronomical amounts of emotional blackmail and emotional diversion.
(2/2)
It was clear that almost all of the European Jews had either fled or were deported and separated, but what was less clear was that almost all of them had changed their names, and that they had been told by their Zionist overlords that "all of their family members had perished". (And with the typhus epidemic in several camps, many HAD also died, but not millions.) Most of them took this lie for harsh truth, and if they still tried to find lost family members, it was actively obstructed, and the name-changes that were highly recommended by the Zionists, made it almost impossible to figure out where surviving family members would be. The circumstances of deportation and an immense chaos after the war created the perfect setting for a perfect crime. Thus: everybody believed that all others were dead. The numbers of survivors never made the six million claim believable, as we end up with way more people than had been present in Europe before the war. But pointing such things out was obviously taboo, and victimisation was anyway already deeply ingrained into the Jewish people.
Needless to say how much the creation of Israel in 1948 hinged on the belief in the "gas chambers" and the "six million". Even 80 years later, the lie still keeps on giving and our global society has only just recently begun to correct the results that this belief had produced. Germany and Japan are presently nations who have sold their souls to the US: they hardly have any culture of their own left (Japanese "manga" portrays Japanese as caucasian), and their territories might as well be included in the list of the US states. Equally, all Western European countries have puppet regimes that act purely upon the wishes of Washington and have no real autonomy. (E.g. the nuclear bombs in Kleine Brogel in Belgium, against which the population demonstrated in humongous numbers in the early 80s, with small yearly protests ever since, and which were never officially acknowledged by ANY Belgian government or Prime Minister, no matter what party or where on the political spectrum they came from – and there's been any colour in the 40+ years since. They were dictated by Washington, and the Belgian population had and has no right whatsoever to refuse the nuclear warheads being stored in their own country.)
But shortly after the war, the hyped-up emotions and the war hysteria ebbed away, the process of sobering up began, and normal, rational interest in the facts revealed that quite a few things claimed and accepted as fact in the Nüremberg Tribunals were shown and accepted to have been falsehoods, produced in the heat of the war and for political reasons that no longer seemed valid. (The so highly acclaimed Nüremberg Tribunals were nothing but kangaroo courts, everyone who is interested can look into that for themselves: the terms the court was created on were scandalous, openly 100% biased, and completely unjust: it was a pure revenge-affair, where "truth" was the last thing anybody was interested in.)
The ridiculousness of the claimed shrunken Jew heads, the soaps, the lampshades, but also, the fact that the concentration camps on the Western side of the Iron Curtain had nothing that could be scientifically shown to have been "gas chambers", made the atrocity picture change quite effectively.
Little by little, all of the "death camps" disappeared behind the Iron Curtain, safely tucked away where Western curiosity and thirst for facts could less easily access them.
Dachau, up until around the year 2000, had a sign up with the a full-on insult to intelligence: "Gas chamber, disguised as a shower room (never used as a gas chamber)". With the rise of the internet, it became so often ridiculed that the Dachau museum decided to quietly remove it.
By the end of the 60s, questions about the reality of the so-called "holocaust" rose, and several books were published that studied the question in-depth. Churchill, Roosevelt and De Gaulle had all published very extensive war memoirs, and NONE of these volumes so much as mentioned "gas chambers" or the gassing of Jews, not even "extermination camps".
Zionism had to react, and several publications came out to keep the emotional mill running and to keep people from asking rational, scientific questions. Stuff was kept in check for some time, but the question about the truth of the matter periodically came to the surface and refused to completely die out.
The fall of the USSR and the Iron Curtain was a nightmare for Zionism. Suddenly, access to all the death-camps (or the fields they were claimed to have existed on) and to their records would be available to the Western scholars and interested people who after all this time just wanted to know the truth of it all, and see the places for the themselves. The complete absence of all proof would be revealed, and fast, decisive and extremely expensive action was undertaken to make sure the damage would be minimised. More emotional books, memorials, museums, even curricula for all schools and all ages that HAD to include the holocaust flooded Western society, and finally, because all else failed and too much truth was being published, the last resort was pushed through: the unbelievable-but-true outlawing of public voicing or discussing of DOUBT in the Zionist narrative. An opinion, a discussion, as far as I know the first in our times, was being CRIMINALISED.
And the TV channels were flooded with movies and docu-series about the "Shoah", capitalising on the popularity of Steven Spielberg, among others. The emotional blackmail went into overdrive, in a desperate attempt to keep the truth under wraps.
The Zündel trials had done great harm and revealed that there were no scientific facts to corroborate the hoax, and in spite of everything – or maybe because of the avalanche of emotional pressure? – researchers kept digging into the matter. Very quietly, the claimed death-toll of the Auschwitz Birkenau camp had been lowered from 4 million to 1.5 million: a whole 2.5 million less, almost half of the claimed 6 million – a figure that strangely enough remained untouched!
In spite of all rationality and science, the Zionists however, so far, won the battle and managed to silence, ruin, slander, outcast, break or jail every person daring to do SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH into the gas chambers.
There's loads and loads more that is totally false about what we're being told about WWII. It's such a "Mother of All Hoaxes", that it takes a lifetime to really get to the bottom of it all.
The social pressure is obviously at the same level, and almost nobody in the "truther community" or however we would call it – alternative media, independent media, truth tellers – is willing to risk their reputation and often their livelihood or even life by touching this Hottest of All Potatoes.
Thank you for having the courage to start scratching the surface of the WWII propaganda bs.
Oh: and of course the Germans couldn't have known what didn't happen. But WE, with our internet and social media, cannot claim we don't know what is happening in the world, and all the atrocities that ARE being perpetrated in our name.
But we too, we 'truthers' need to practice strong discernment when reading what people have written about the 2nd WW, what is being 'revealed' as 'truth' about it, just as we need to discern with great care the truths or lies being constantly perpetrated, about current events, all the more effectively now that we have the internet. Many hurdles.
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2023/05/26/ai-chatbot-is-a-holocaust-denier/
Wow!!! This is information we need. We need to start with and go from whatever facts we can find.
The codoh website has a library of books free for download that will take you years to get through. It's detailed scientific research into the facts of the camps and the claims made about them. It's mind blowing.
Thank you for posting this information here. We need facts, not fact-claims.
https://codoh.com/
I agree it is vital to be able to explore.
In my case, I have known many Holocaust survivors - including a long-time neighbor across the street, plus many others, including the parents of 2 friends, one in Canada and one in Israel. That means that not only did these people survive the horrors of the camps, but what they remember is part of the record of what happened.
As for how many died, from my explorations, 70% of German Jews managed to escape - including a family friend, Mr Stein, who was a soldier on the German side in World War I, and was the only member of his family who escaped the killings. There was no money for his parents to leave, go to Shanghai. He said China was the only country which welcomed Jews - but it was far away, and expensive to get to.
German Jews (who I believe made up .7% of the German population before World War II) had 6 years to do their best to find a place to go - not so easy as, for example, the Canadian attitude, during World War II, to taking in Jews was "One is too many." The very few Jews who got into Canada spent the war years in prison.
Jews in Poland, where they made up 10% of the population, had no warning. A very different situation. Likewise Jews in Austria (4% of the population).
So I am all for exploring. I am all for not believing without exploring.
I am also for acknowledging, for example, the firebombing of Dresden and the Rhine Field camps.
I have a long way to go to have a solid understanding of what happened because like you, I long accepted the "narrative."
Note that not accepting the narrative does not mean disregarding evidence that substantiates the narrative.
Anyway, again, this is an exploration I am only basically beginning.
well said, Elsa, big TQ for opening this can of worms!
A pleasure to be opening it. How else can we get at the truth.
well.... it will take a long while, because up untill now for this particular subject it has been possible only to do it little by little (uphill battle). H* research has been heavily obstructed. next there's the more philosophical question: what is 'truth', and 'is there such a thing as truth?'. famous example: even to come of a precise description of a fairly simple event, such as a traffic accident, with many participants, bystanders and other witnesses, is a serious, if not a sometimes impossible challenge. personally I like to see as many eyewitness accounts as possible, like a caleidoscope of partial, yet real truths. the more the better, and then fine-tuning to the most precise description. we'll see Elsa, I think it's brave to set out on this particular road!
I congratulate you for your public exploration!
I fully agree: evidence (but real evidence, not just some hearsay) has to be included and acknowledged, no matter what it points at.
My question is: what have survivors SEEN themselves? Or experienced? Because what is clear is that every Jew who lived after 1945 was bombarded a "survivor". Their children, who were not even born during the war, are also "survivors"!
So what exactly did people SEE? LIVE? Gas chambers? I'm very interested to talk to someone who claimed to have seen a gas chamber. Let alone a functioning one.
easier said than done, because of the extreme compartmentalisation. prisoners saw fellow inmates go into the lethal showers (alledgedly Zyclon-B) and "never saw them again", but how realistic is that? de-lousing was a big problem, typhus too, all-over health conditions were abominable. what did they see? indeed....
We're constantly fed the interpretation before we even ourselves had the time to process what actually we saw. We need to get back to the facts: what did you actually SEE? Without any interpretation. I am confident nobody saw gassings.
Btw, the "witness testimonies" of the Nüremberg tribunals all spoke about "blue bodies" after the gassing. This is because cyanide is blue and leaves blue spots on walls, but people who die from cyanide gas poisoning are almost magenta because it does not kill you of oxygen depravation, but of oxygen overdose: it prevents oxygen from leaving the body, blowing up bodies and giving them a very pink hue. The opposite was being told by the "witnesses", proving they were telling stories instead of having seen anything. All the accounts of what supposedly happened with the bodies were wrong, they talk about what we imagine would happen instead of what in reality would happen. Bodies were supposedly pulled out of the rooms by the dozens, while cyanide gas poisoning leaves bodies toxic and oozing the gas for many minutes and even hours, making handling them as dangerous as being part of the alleged "gassing".
Sooo much to discover and learn!
It takes courage to ask "inappropriate" questions, and you have it, Elsa.
In my case, I'm only showing that the official line in history simply cannot be true, but I don't pretend to know the truth. Conjecturing shows that the official narrative is, as always, full of lies...
For those in doubt, I recommend sources and links at www.ihr.org
One thing at a time. Wiesel's "eye-witness" account has turned out to have been fabrication in several instances (and his Nobel-Prize-winning "novel" has no literary value, but that's irrelevant, except it substantiates the suspicion that he is a front man):
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/the-horror-the-horror
He is anything but an authority on the subject.
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/somebody-please-explain
For more:
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/a-little-alternative-history
https://rayhorvaththesource.substack.com/p/missing-the-target-the-globalist
Blinken's story about his Jewish stepfather and holocaust 'survivor' Samuel Pisar would be hilarious if it weren't such a vicious lie - https://culturewars.com/news/antony-blinken-is-a-holocaust-liar
The whole H* story needs "legal" protection in order to survive. In the last several decades, lies about WW2 have been clearing up at a rate that must be alarming for the liars.
LOL
A comment from a reader:
A couple of yrs ago I questioned now a close friend, originally an older colleague, born in 1933, about the end of the war in Bavaria. She said she, and her mother, were shocked to the core to learn of the atrocities in the concentration camps.
THAT IS WHAT MY FATHER ALSO TOLD ME. He was especially devastated to learn that A classmate - a friend - had been killed, along with the whole family. This was personal. I believe his classmate’s name was Ernst.
It is not a matter of fact versus opinion. You can't generalize that 'all Germans knew or should have known'. In a court of law, hearsay in not permissible because it can be misconstrued. If somebody claims they know somebody who claims everybody knew - move on. Don't waste your time on them
Angela, what you say here is very crucial. Together with the "everyone has their truth" cliché that discourages people from searching for facts and even believing that there ARE facts that can be found, the push to blur the lines between facts and opinion was pushed out everywhere.
I became aware of this for the first time in the US presidential election campaign of 2016. The facts about Hillary Clinton and her mythomania about several things were painted by the MSM as "opinions". We got to read articles that spoke emotionally about what Hillary Clinton had meant for women in the US, which totally deflected all discussion about the facts of her lying and her disgusting behaviour as a Secretary of State, and portrayed these facts as "opinions". They focused on "I have a very positive opinion on Hillary, and I will allow nobody to deny me my opinion". That is so devious, so sneaky, we have to be very aware to see how the psychological game is played. Because whether Hillary Clinton gleefully chuckled over the brutal, medieval, barbaric death of Muammar Khadaffi or not is NOT an opinion: it's a fact, that we all can ascertain for ourselves. What we then THINK of Hillary Clinton is for each to decide, but the FACT that she said "We came, we saw, he died" with a huge grin on her face and openly joyful and laughing about it, that is NOT part of that opinion. That is a FACT. But the MSM made everyone believe that acknowledging this fact was "an opinion", and that therefore, it could be discarded and countered with a different opinion. The idea planted in the brains of millions of people was that "my opinion is as good as your fact, because your fact is in fact only an opinion". Now consider at that statement rationally and tell me it is true or false.
It is crucial that we open our eyes for this brainwashing that we are exposed to 24/7, otherwise we are only slaves to the thought masters.
And yes, since we are so immensely brainwashed, we have to crawl out of that labyrinth very carefully, as we can hardly be sure of anything anymore. We therefore need to go to the most basic things we can take for certain: this person said this; that person said that; this is the situation this person was in; that is the situation that person was in; this happened here; that happened there; we have photographic evidence of this; we have only someone's words that here this has happened at such moment; is there anything that corroborates this or is there anything that contradicts it? All these very basic, simple, fundamental questions are our only tool to find our way out of our own indoctrination. And that's what Elsa is attempting. Trying to get as many facts on the table as possible, and see whether they create a coherent picture or not.
It is a fact what my father said, and a fact what the friend said. It does not mean her friend knew what was going on in Germany, which he had left years earlier. It does not mean my father knew what was going on throughout Austria or Germany. It does mean my father knew what was going on around himself, and if he is reliable, that he is accurately reporting on what he knew around himself.
Why bother dealing with this? So many people live disconnected from facts, mix facts and opinions.
And you are not one of them?!? I thought you studied psychology. What your father saw is what your father saw - and presumably told you that he saw (or thought he saw). Ditto the friend. Sometimes people see something, or suspect something, and convince themselves they are not seeing what they are seeing or - for a fleeting moment - suspect they are seeing (especially if it is so monstrous as to be unbelievable). I can accept that the majority of decent, hard working German people did not see, or suspect or know what was going on. That does not make them liars or mixing facts and opinions or disconnected. It just makes them gullible humans. Dennis John McKenna molested dozens of boys at Katanning Boarding School and got away with it because he spent more time grooming an impeccable reputation for himself - which stopped all of the adults (parents, police, doctors, teachers, community members, colleagues) from believing what was staring them in the face (until the number of victims was overwhelming). Even after he was convicted, the local Mayor refused to accept the man she insisted she knew better than anybody else was capable of hoodwinking everybody (including her). What makes you think your father is 100% reliable - why do you trust him? Ask an incest survivor if they think you should trust your own father 100% - or ask the wife of a mass murderer who slept alongside her loving partner every night for 2, 30, 40, 50 years. Then take a look at the photos with Auguste Landmesser arms folded when everybody around him was pledging allegiance to the Nationalist Party. Go to a footy match and watch the contagion of the crowd. And if you are still not 'getting it', then perhaps your substack has been hacked and you are a bot.
Who is to be believed? Good question. You know what you experienced and want to be believed. My father likewise knew what he experienced and wanted to be believed. Why should I believe you and not him? Why should I consider you 100% reliable? I knew my father and his passion for knowing things. He would read the encyclopedia for fun. But again, what makes you give my father less reliability that you, as you seem to assume. I see no reason to believe you any more than my father. But you seem to assume that, when you say you are an incest survivor, you are automatically to be believed - but my father, a war survivor, is not.
Thanks for the heads up - You're a bot